Any route permitted

[The Wookiee]

What does this actually mean on a train ticket?

Yesterday I bought a ticket from worthing to brighton, but got on the train that went to Victoria. I should of changed at Hove but nodded off. I told the guard. She says thats fine you can get off at the next stop Haywards Heath and go back to Brighton as my ticket was any route permitted.

This had me thinking as my ticket cost £4.50 and a single from Worthing to H Heath is over £8, next time I want to go to H Heath from Worthing it would be worth my while buying a ticket to Brighton

 

[Notters]

Ah, but you wouldn't be allowed to break your journey at Haywards Heath, or anywhere else.

 

[The Wookiee]

Ah, but you wouldn't be allowed to break your journey at Haywards Heath, or anywhere else.

The guard said I was allowed to chage at H Heath to go back to Brighton as my ticket was any route permitted.

So I popped in and saw my girlfriend who lives in H Heath.

Total fare £4.50 from Worthing to H Heath instead of £8

 

[Notters]

The guard said I was allowed to chage at H Heath to go back to Brighton as my ticket was any route permitted.

So I popped in and saw my girlfriend who lives in H Heath.

Total fare £4.50 from Worthing to H Heath instead of £8

But if there had been a ticket inspector in the foyer you would've got a £150 fine or similar.

 

[Norman Potting]

What does this actually mean on a train ticket?

Yesterday I bought a ticket from worthing to brighton, but got on the train that went to Victoria. I should of changed at Hove but nodded off. I told the guard. She says thats fine you can get off at the next stop Haywards Heath and go back to Brighton as my ticket was any route permitted.

This had me thinking as my ticket cost £4.50 and a single from Worthing to H Heath is over £8, next time I want to go to H Heath from Worthing it would be worth my while buying a ticket to Brighton

I think the subject of railway permitted routes is such a convoluted art she probably couldn't be bothered to check it.

Back in the day of my brief railway career they did try and produce a manual to cover all the various permitted permutations - it was massive and no-one could understand it! I think however that the route you went was a no-no and you could have had probs. if a ticket inspector had copped you. By her logic changing at East Croydon would also be allowed. I think the acid test is that the fare is higher to HH.

 

[The Wookiee]

But if there had been a ticket inspector in the foyer you would've got a £150 fine or similar.

Have never seen a ticket inspector in the foyer at H Heath, although they are about to install ticket machines at the main entrance, although not at the Boltro Rd exit

 

[The Wookiee]

I think the subject of railway permitted routes is such a convoluted art she probably couldn't be bothered to check it.

Back in the day of my brief railway career they did try and produce a manual to cover all the various permitted permutations - it was massive and no-one could understand it! I think however that the route you went was a no-no and you could have had probs. if a ticket inspector had copped you. By her logic changing at East Croydon would also be allowed. I think the acid test is that the fare is higher to HH.

No East Croydon would not of been permitted as it was not the next stop after Hove, H Heath was

 

[Notters]

Have never seen a ticket inspector in the foyer at H Heath, although they are about to install ticket machines at the main entrance, although not at the Boltro Rd exit

Really? Perhaps they're only there during rush hour as I've seen them quite a bit.

The "permitted route" thing is rather odd. I remember when I lived in Nottingham and we had Wrexham away, i tried to book a ticket online but it wouldn't let me. I phoned them up and they said this wasn't a permitted route so I had to get a single from Nottingham to Birmingham and another on to Wrexham!

 

[fataddick]

Changing at HH would presumably be permissible as it's the first place on that particular line (the London-Brighton main line) your train stopped on, even though changing at Hove made more sense. Changing further up (Three Bridges, Gatwick, Croydon, etc) they could probably do you for as you're actually deliberately travelling further in the direction directly away from Brighton. You're techincally not allowed to break your outward journey, but you can break your return yourney as many times as you like, so probably could technically get off for a bit at HH with your return portion, although it would be tricky convinving any inspectors of that.

I use the "any route permitted" trick when travelling back to Brighton after Lewes bonfire night. The queue on the bridge for the Brighton trains is usually an hour long, but the queue for the London trains is non-existent, so you can get back way quicker by going via Haywards Heath. Sometimes the ticket inspectors or police try to make me join the Brighton queue, but I make up some story about a friend dying on the platform at Falmer or Moulescombe years ago and how I can no longer face travelling through that station, and they let me through.

Oh shit, everyone's going to do this now.

 

[Notters]

I use the "any route permitted" trick when travelling back to Brighton after Lewes bonfire night. The queue on the bridge for the Brighton trains is usually an hour long, but the queue for the London trains is non-existent, so you can get back way quicker by going via Haywards Heath. Sometimes the ticket inspectors or police try to make me join the Brighton queue, but I make up some story about a friend dying on the platform at Falmer or Moulescombe years ago and how I can no longer face travelling through that station, and they let me through.

Oh shit, everyone's going to do this now.

Have thought about doing this before, but have never had any problem just grabbing a cab. The last official train to HH is at 11, are there later ones?

 

[Ernest]

Route permitted is exactly that, Worthing to Brighton via Haywards Heath is not permitted and you would only be allowed to do that if you missed your stop and travelled back on the first available train to Brighton.
That would have been a £20 penalty fare if caught and no doubt a 1000 post thread on here

 

[Acker79]

I think it means just that - you can use any route to get to your destination, however, you probably won't be allowed to leave the train stations except your final destination one as this would constitute breaking the journey.

 

[The Wookiee]

Route permitted is exactly that, Worthing to Brighton via Haywards Heath is not permitted and you would only be allowed to do that if you missed your stop and travelled back on the first available train to Brighton.
That would have been a £20 penalty fare if caught and no doubt a 1000 post thread on here

The question was any route permitted. The guard allowed me to carry on my journey to Brighton via H Heath as my ticket said 'any route permitted' so are you saying she should of issued a penalty fare or asked me to pay for another ticket ?

 

[The Oldman]

Going slightly of this topic but if you use an Oyster card on the London overhead rail lines how does a ticket inspector know if you have checked in?
I'm going to use my card on Saturday from East Croydon to Charlton and will check in but intrigued to know how an inspector deals with the Oyster system.

 

[sten_super]

Going slightly of this topic but if you use an Oyster card on the London overhead rail lines how does a ticket inspector know if you have checked in?
I'm going to use my card on Saturday from East Croydon to Charlton and will check in but intrigued to know how an inspector deals with the Oyster system.

On the DLR they have some clever kind of scanner which can work out if your card has been 'activated' at a departing station. I'd assume it's the same on the overground.

Back on topic, Wookie did you break your journey? If you did not I would imagine that basically you could use 'any' route to get there, although no doubt eyebrows would be raised if you got off at Victoria and tried to claim you were on route to Brighton!

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Changing at HH would presumably be permissible as it's the first place on that particular line (the London-Brighton main line) your train stopped on, even though changing at Hove made more sense. Changing further up (Three Bridges, Gatwick, Croydon, etc) they could probably do you for as you're actually deliberately travelling further in the direction directly away from Brighton. You're techincally not allowed to break your outward journey, but you can break your return yourney as many times as you like, so probably could technically get off for a bit at HH with your return portion, although it would be tricky convinving any inspectors of that.

I use the "any route permitted" trick when travelling back to Brighton after Lewes bonfire night. The queue on the bridge for the Brighton trains is usually an hour long, but the queue for the London trains is non-existent, so you can get back way quicker by going via Haywards Heath. Sometimes the ticket inspectors or police try to make me join the Brighton queue, but I make up some story about a friend dying on the platform at Falmer or Moulescombe years ago and how I can no longer face travelling through that station, and they let me through.

Oh shit, everyone's going to do this now.

Isn't it easier to get a train to Glynde then get on a Brighton train?

 

[fataddick]

Isn't it easier to get a train to Glynde then get on a Brighton train?

No, there's not many trains between Lewes and Glynde in the evening, and you'd have to leave Lewes about half ten, far earlier than I'd normally leave bonfire night, to get the last train of the night back from Glynde. Going via HH is definitely the quickest/easiest way in my experience.

 

[The Wookiee]

On the DLR they have some clever kind of scanner which can work out if your card has been 'activated' at a departing station. I'd assume it's the same on the overground.

Back on topic, Wookie did you break your journey? If you did not I would imagine that basically you could use 'any' route to get there, although no doubt eyebrows would be raised if you got off at Victoria and tried to claim you were on route to Brighton!

Yes I got off at H Heath, popped in and saw my girlfriend at got the train back to Brighton a bit later

 

[Ernest]

The question was any route permitted. The guard allowed me to carry on my journey to Brighton via H Heath as my ticket said 'any route permitted' so are you saying she should of issued a penalty fare or asked me to pay for another ticket ?

He was feeling sorry for you , if you had been stopped by a Inspector travelling 4 hours or so later on that ticket you would have copped a penalty fare or been arrested for fraudulent travel.
Route permitted is exactly that, you may have been misunderstood by the guard who just told you to get the next train back to Brighton.
Why do you think all the gatelines are springing up everywhere and more inspectors on the trains ? To stop fraudulent travel such as your case.

 

[fataddick]

Time for the definitive answer:

Leaving the station at Haywards Heath was a no-no (you can only break return portions of return tickets, not outward portions or singles).

As for whether it was a permitted route, you need to consult the nine complicated PDFs I've found on the train companies' interweb here:

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

This is the official routeing guide for the UK train network.

Worthing and Brighton both have a common routeing point, Brighton Group (Brighton & Hove stations), so the only permitted route is the shortest route to either of those stations, ergo you can change at Hove, but changing at Haywards Heath ISN'T a permitted route for your journey. The only other routeing point (place you can change) from Worthing is Ford Group (Ford & Littlehampton), and there's no way you could argue that was the most direct route to Brighton.

The Easments document lists exceptions to the rules, the only one I can find for Worthing is you can change at Haywards Heath for journeys to Polegate and beyond (easement 16).

With regard to my bonfire night journey, easement 18 says that you can go via Brighton if travelling between Lewes and Haywards Heath (in either direction), but travelling via Haywards Heath between Lewes and Brighton (as I do) on the other hand isn't an easement. Lewes and Brighton are both routeing points, and according to Map CW, the one permitted route between them is the direct one (Coastway East line via Falmer).

Incidentally, Charlton is for some reason a routeing point, and the only permitted place to change between there and the Brighton Group routeing point according to the documents is... 'LONDON'. So don't no-one be going via Swansea or nothing.

I hope this is all the information you need, and you get as much enjoyment from these PDFs as I intend to (and to think, Millwall fans call us 'trainspotters').