Any cruise aficionados here?

[trueblue]

I've never really fancied a cruise personally and having seen the Channel 4 documentary last week about the (lack of) pay and appalling working conditions imposed on the staff, I'm even less likely to do it now. It's not surprising that the ships can offer five star luxury throughout the trip when you have people from poverty stricken countries working for "tips only" at best.

Obviously, living on board a cruise liner may seem a decent alternative to life in a shack. But some have even paid for the privilege of being there and need to work for a year before they can cover their initial costs, so there's no realistic option of leaving. It's modern day slavery.

 

[HovaGirl]

I've never really fancied a cruise personally and having seen the Channel 4 documentary last week about the (lack of) pay and appalling working conditions imposed on the staff, I'm even less likely to do it now. It's not surprising that the ships can offer five star luxury throughout the trip when you have people from poverty stricken countries working for "tips only" at best.

Obviously, living on board a cruise liner may seem a decent alternative to life in a shack. But some have even paid for the privilege of being there and need to work for a year before they can cover their initial costs, so there's no realistic option of leaving. It's modern day slavery.

They live 9 months of the year onboard, with no expenses and all board and lodging covered. Whatever their meagre wages, they are able to save the bulk of it and send it or take it home with them. Meantime, they can visit some of the ports and see something of the world. They are not forced to do it, as slaves were, but choose to do so.

 

[smudge]

What was this documentary called? I'd like to see what they have to say. Writing this from the slave ship Norwegian Sun.

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

I've never really fancied a cruise personally and having seen the Channel 4 documentary last week about the (lack of) pay and appalling working conditions imposed on the staff, I'm even less likely to do it now. It's not surprising that the ships can offer five star luxury throughout the trip when you have people from poverty stricken countries working for "tips only" at best.

Obviously, living on board a cruise liner may seem a decent alternative to life in a shack. But some have even paid for the privilege of being there and need to work for a year before they can cover their initial costs, so there's no realistic option of leaving. It's modern day slavery.

I know two people who work on cruise ships, both love it and haven't complained about the pay. The only problem I found with watching that documentary was the false information he was given prior to getting the job. Considering while they are on the ship everything is paid for the pay isn't that bad.

 

[The Spanish]

seriously, who says "chavs"? its a right fist in the mouth word.

i would not want to be stuck on a ship with the sort of people who say "chavs", more than actually being stuck on a ship with "chavs".

 

[The Spanish]

I've never really fancied a cruise personally and having seen the Channel 4 documentary last week about the (lack of) pay and appalling working conditions imposed on the staff, I'm even less likely to do it now. It's not surprising that the ships can offer five star luxury throughout the trip when you have people from poverty stricken countries working for "tips only" at best.

Obviously, living on board a cruise liner may seem a decent alternative to life in a shack. But some have even paid for the privilege of being there and need to work for a year before they can cover their initial costs, so there's no realistic option of leaving. It's modern day slavery.

you dont have a scooby mate. its better than living in a shack indeed. i can take you round a dozen manning offices in manila in a day and you should say to their faces well its better than living in a shack eh mate. a lot of these poor exploited dupes have better lives and homes than half on here, plus without the patronising condecension of westerners who are similarly wage slaves.

you have been indoctrinated to think everyone from the third world is exploited. its not true. some countries are just catching up. thats all. we were the first and we were lapped years ago. there are plenty more waiting to lap us. go out and speak to these people as colleagues and friends, they would laugh at what you just posted.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

We were actually on the Eclipse last summer out of Southampton which the programme covered.

Theer is a sensationalist attitude that the media like to peddle regarding third world labour and first world standards. The cruise industry is no different to your adidas sports clothing, nike trainers etc etc. Its all relative and based on the premis that all workers should be paid exactly the same for a particular job wherever they are in the world...as an idea and an aspiration, it is 100% right, however we all know its not going to happen due to cultural issues etc

With regards to the cruises we take, we pre-pay tips and that is an amount, say $150 a week and that is distributed between the waiters and staff, however we separately tip our cabin staff, around $50 ish depending on how good they are. The US/Canadian people tend to do more as again its a cultural thing.

With regards to the Chav comments, there is no doubt that some cruise lines actively chase the british market and price such...£500 for a 2 week cruise to the med., which is as near as dammit all inclusive ( apart from drinks and excursions). We are a bit snobbish when it comes to chosing a cruise and tend to stay very clear of teh "tatoo and football shirt " crowd that does attach itself to a particular brand. But again that is the same with all holidays, ie benidorm or tuscany! We also steer clear of teh hen and stag do mini cruises from Southampton to France for two nights....whic seemly are very messy indeed!!

Certainly some cruise lines price themselves out of many peoples pockets, Seabourne, Regency, some Cunard ships etc ( we were quoted £8000 for a week cruise around the med on Seabourne per person, which is four times the price per person of a 2 week cruise on Celebrity and 6 times on P&O) so as I said it is horses for courses.

We are looking at the caribbean this easter coming, and hopefully alska later on in the year, whale watching!

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

Ocean Village had a bit of a reputation as they had no dress code and the like, however i'm the sort of bloke that knows which knife and fork to use and I thought it was wonderful, Me, The Modfather and our ladies took one a few years back and saw some wonderful countries we'd not usually visit, we didn't see a hint of a 'chav' at The Montefiore Locks on The Panama Canal, Cartajena Beach in Colombia, while caving in Belize, on a cable car in Costa Rica nor on a 20 mile cycle ride in Honduras despite this all at a working mans price

 

[trueblue]

you dont have a scooby mate. its better than living in a shack indeed. i can take you round a dozen manning offices in manila in a day and you should say to their faces well its better than living in a shack eh mate. a lot of these poor exploited dupes have better lives and homes than half on here, plus without the patronising condecension of westerners who are similarly wage slaves.

you have been indoctrinated to think everyone from the third world is exploited. its not true. some countries are just catching up. thats all. we were the first and we were lapped years ago. there are plenty more waiting to lap us. go out and speak to these people as colleagues and friends, they would laugh at what you just posted.

I've been all over the world and seen poverty at first hand in Africa so I think I do have a scooby...

The attitude that they all love what they're doing might be fine for some middle class kid on a gap year but the reality for the some of the guys on the Dispatches documentary was 9 months work or more without a day off just to meet their initial costs. There'd be no money 'to send back home' by the time their costs (uniform etc) were covered and the opportunities to actually see the places the ship stops at would be, to put it mildly, very limited.

Believe what you want to believe. I don't know why a respected documentary strand like "Dispatches" would want to make this stuff up, so I'll take it at face value. It's only logical that these ships can't offer the quality they do at the price without someone getting turned over... But you just have another glass of champagne and don't worry about it... Your choice.

 

[smudge]

It's true that a lot of our crew do not get paid much by our standards. It's also true that they do long contracts. (Our longest are now 8 months, but they often extend to 9).
However, they all want to be here & have families at home reliant on the money that they send home for their kids education, medicine, food etc.
I know all of our crew by name as I train them in all things safety, so I'm the first person they meet when arriving onboard. I have heard horror stories from other companies, bit all I know is that here we treat all of our crew members with respect. We have over 60 different nationalities working & living together, and by & large we all get along just fine.
I personally don't see why a Philippines crew member should get paid less than an American, (using bridge officers as an example). If he did get the same he would be very wealthy back home. However, it's all econimics, & if the PH peso were to get stronger against the dollar, then trust me, more than half of our crew would be off.
A very small percentage are here to "live the dream". (Spa girls, gift shop, dancers); most of us are here for one reason only, to earn a crust.
In my case; I've worked at sea all my life & have no idea what I would do on land. I would definitley love to get a job at home though, that's a fact.

 

[trueblue]

I know two people who work on cruise ships, both love it and haven't complained about the pay. The only problem I found with watching that documentary was the false information he was given prior to getting the job. Considering while they are on the ship everything is paid for the pay isn't that bad.

What pay? He was guaranteed a minimum amount (which changed after the ship left port) but it transpired that this was to come from tips and the cruise company only paid any balance. In fact, after his expenses had been met, it had cost him money to work 12 hours a day. Fine for some people who just want something to keep them off the streets for the duration but, however you carve that up, the cruise companies are taking the p*ss.

 

[trueblue]

It's true that a lot of our crew do not get paid much by our standards. It's also true that they do long contracts. (Our longest are now 8 months, but they often extend to 9).
However, they all want to be here & have families at home reliant on the money that they send home for their kids education, medicine, food etc.
I know all of our crew by name as I train them in all things safety, so I'm the first person they meet when arriving onboard. I have heard horror stories from other companies, bit all I know is that here we treat all of our crew members with respect. We have over 60 different nationalities working & living together, and by & large we all get along just fine.
I personally don't see why a Philippines crew member should get paid less than an American, (using bridge officers as an example). If he did get the same he would be very wealthy back home. However, it's all econimics, & if the PH peso were to get stronger against the dollar, then trust me, more than half of our crew would be off.
A very small percentage are here to "live the dream". (Spa girls, gift shop, dancers); most of us are here for one reason only, to earn a crust.
In my case; I've worked at sea all my life & have no idea what I would do on land. I would definitley love to get a job at home though, that's a fact.

I don't doubt some do enjoy it - especially entertainers etc who are getting experience. The programme concentrated more on those that tend to get shafted in general like cleaners and laundry workers... Do they all enjoy it as much? The real problem is that by the time they know they're screwed, there's no affordable way to jack it in,

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

What pay? He was guaranteed a minimum amount (which changed after the ship left port) but it transpired that this was to come from tips and the cruise company only paid any balance. In fact, after his expenses had been met, it had cost him money to work 12 hours a day. Fine for some people who just want something to keep them off the streets for the duration but, however you carve that up, the cruise companies are taking the p*ss.

So you believe after watching a 30 minute documentary that all cruise liners are this bad and no one earns good money? As I said, I know people who work on cruise ships, both make a reasonable amount of money considering it costs them near to nothing while they are on board.

 

[Hampden Park]

What was this documentary called? I'd like to see what they have to say. Writing this from the slave ship Norwegian Sun.

SHUT IT SMITH AND KEEP ROWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smudge]

SHUT IT SMITH AND KEEP ROWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aye Aye Sir! If we need an OD RS I'll give you a shout Foxy; you need some sea time!

 

[trueblue]

So you believe after watching a 30 minute documentary that all cruise liners are this bad and no one earns good money? As I said, I know people who work on cruise ships, both make a reasonable amount of money considering it costs them near to nothing while they are on board.

I'm sure some people make reasonable money but I'm equally sure that a lot of those employed from the poorest countries do not. You can say it's based on one documentary if you like but you don't have to search very hard on the 'net to find that the practice of 'paying' the lowest tiers of worker 'tips only' is common practice in the shipping industry. Of course, what they do "earn" (i.e. what they're gifted by passengers, if anything is left over) will buy more where they're from but that doesn't stop it from being exploitation. Registering ships in countries that allow the owners to avoid any semblance of honouring workers' rights looks to be very common across a range of companies.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I'm sure some people make reasonable money but I'm equally sure that a lot of those employed from the poorest countries do not. You can say it's based on one documentary if you like but you don't have to search very hard on the 'net to find that the practice of 'paying' the lowest tiers of worker 'tips only' is common practice in the shipping industry. Of course, what they do "earn" (i.e. what they're gifted by passengers, if anything is left over) will buy more where they're from but that doesn't stop it from being exploitation. Registering ships in countries that allow the owners to avoid any semblance of honouring workers' rights looks to be very common across a range of companies.

Where the dispatches went wrong was not comparing eggs with eggs....did they compare the hotel industry worldwide? Did they compare hotels in the countries the people come from? This is the main issue. Everyone knows the leisure industry pay is crap...although meals and acom is provided, so to pick on one area is disingenuous.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I'm sure some people make reasonable money but I'm equally sure that a lot of those employed from the poorest countries do not. You can say it's based on one documentary if you like but you don't have to search very hard on the 'net to find that the practice of 'paying' the lowest tiers of worker 'tips only' is common practice in the shipping industry. Of course, what they do "earn" (i.e. what they're gifted by passengers, if anything is left over) will buy more where they're from but that doesn't stop it from being exploitation. Registering ships in countries that allow the owners to avoid any semblance of honouring workers' rights looks to be very common across a range of companies.

Where the dispatches went wrong was not comparing eggs with eggs....did they compare the hotel industry worldwide? Did they compare hotels in the countries the people come from? This is the main issue. Everyone knows the leisure industry pay is crap...although meals and acom is provided, so to pick on one area is disingenuous.

 

[The Spanish]

It's true that a lot of our crew do not get paid much by our standards. It's also true that they do long contracts. (Our longest are now 8 months, but they often extend to 9).
However, they all want to be here & have families at home reliant on the money that they send home for their kids education, medicine, food etc.
I know all of our crew by name as I train them in all things safety, so I'm the first person they meet when arriving onboard. I have heard horror stories from other companies, bit all I know is that here we treat all of our crew members with respect. We have over 60 different nationalities working & living together, and by & large we all get along just fine.
I personally don't see why a Philippines crew member should get paid less than an American, (using bridge officers as an example). If he did get the same he would be very wealthy back home. However, it's all econimics, & if the PH peso were to get stronger against the dollar, then trust me, more than half of our crew would be off.
A very small percentage are here to "live the dream". (Spa girls, gift shop, dancers); most of us are here for one reason only, to earn a crust.
In my case; I've worked at sea all my life & have no idea what I would do on land. I would definitley love to get a job at home though, that's a fact.

spot on smudge but you know for example croats or ukrainians get paid less than brits and brits get paid less than norwegians. there are pay differences between euopeans.

i know the pay scales for pretty much every nationality on board mate so who is being exploited eh. if you can buy a house in the philippines for 5000usd then who is being ripped off. only daft people need to believe people are being stitched because they have brown skin.

 

[The Spanish]

Where the dispatches went wrong was not comparing eggs with eggs....did they compare the hotel industry worldwide? Did they compare hotels in the countries the people come from? This is the main issue. Everyone knows the leisure industry pay is crap...although meals and acom is provided, so to pick on one area is disingenuous.

ironically in the cruise manning business, we call these staff 'hotel' staff rather than 'deck and engine' for qualified seagoing.

this trueblue fella is hilarious. feels sorry for brown people becase he thinks nasty whitey rips them off. shipping is the least racist industry in the world, but pay scales represent domestic living costs. no one is exploited. i hate the fact i have been sucked into an argument with such a clueless person.