Android challenges Siri and wipes the floor with it

[Gilliver's Travels]

I think the video illustrates just how far voice control has come - it really is an exciting new interface that we'll probably all be using in a year or two wondering how we coped without it.

And that's exactly what seriously interests me in this debate. The 38 posts above account for thousands of words. I wonder how many of those were dictated? Speech recognition software has been available for years, but how many people are actually using it?

I've more or less given up on typing now. Anything taking up more than a line of text – like this post – gets dictated – I happen to use Dragon NaturallySpeaking, but there are other packages. Typing now seems such a ludicrously laborious practice that really belongs in the Stone Age. But I wonder how long before talking instead of typing becomes mainstream? Any views?

 

[Max Paper]

And that's exactly what seriously interests me in this debate. The 38 posts above account for thousands of words. I wonder how many of those were dictated? Speech recognition software has been available for years, but how many people are actually using it?

I've more or less given up on typing now. Anything taking up more than a line of text – like this post – gets dictated – I happen to use Dragon NaturallySpeaking, but there are other packages. Typing now seems such a ludicrously laborious practice that really belongs in the Stone Age. But I wonder how long before talking instead of typing becomes mainstream? Any views?

Did you dictate that post?

 

[beorhthelm]

But I wonder how long before talking instead of typing becomes mainstream? Any views?

ages to never. a bit like when we will ditch the QWERTY layout, no sensible reason for using it. as you point out voice recognition have been available working for years, but there just isnt the interest. something about it doesnt work for everyday, every person use.

 

[Bozza]

ages to never. a bit like when we will ditch the QWERTY layout, no sensible reason for using it. as you point out voice recognition have been available working for years, but there just isnt the interest. something about it doesnt work for everyday, every person use.

In the PC era, I agree, but in the post-PC era where we are carrying around incredibly powerful always-connected computers. The hindrance is the keyboard. Nomatter how big the screen, even on the 5" 'Phablet' Samsung Galaxy Note, small touchscreens are a poor interface - slow and cumbersome. To be really productive on a phone whilst on the move, another input mechanism is required - speech is the most likely to succeed right now.

 

[Bozza]

I have money burning a hole in my pocket right now, I'm hovering over 'buy it now' on a brand new iphone 4s contract free deal, £400. I've had my 3GS for 2 years now, I deserve it. If I don't do it now the money will end up being spent on food or petrol or something equally as boring. My question, Shall I do it?

Difficult, as we all know iPhone 5 (or, more likely, 'new iPhone') is something like 3 months away. It will have a different form factor, and the screen will be bigger - likely 4".

If you do buy a 4S now-ish, your saving grace is that by going contract free you can just move the phone on, and you won't have lost much, and then pick up the new iPhone if you so desire.

 

[Scampi]

Sounds unlucky. I'm interested - how many places do you think would listen to a complaint about a 2 year old product given a 1 year warranty?

I wasn't asking for them to replace it , i wanted to see if i could get it repaired (at my expense). Their attitude was f*** off and buy a new one. Yes it was out of warranty, but listening to some people Apple products are indestructable and i kind of hoped that for something that expensive it should last a little longer than it has especially given the relatively light usage.
Now i'm not suggesting all apple experiences are like this, my wifes 3 gs phone lasted really well and we still have it as a back up phone, but don't run away with the argument that they're infallible and selfless, it just isnt true.

 

[Bozza]

I wasn't asking for them to replace it , i wanted to see if i could get it repaired (at my expense). Their attitude was f*** off and buy a new one. Yes it was out of warranty, but listening to some people Apple products are indestructable and i kind of hoped that for something that expensive it should last a little longer than it has especially given the relatively light usage.

I think you've been unlucky. Geniuses are given a fair amount of discretion about how they treat each situation they deal with. Another Genius in the shop on the same day would probably have given you a different experience.

 

[Scampi]

I have money burning a hole in my pocket right now, I'm hovering over 'buy it now' on a brand new iphone 4s contract free deal, £400. I've had my 3GS for 2 years now, I deserve it. If I don't do it now the money will end up being spent on food or petrol or something equally as boring. My question, Shall I do it?

I'd recommed waiting for something with a bigger screen. I've gone from a an iphone 3gs to a galaxy note and really appreciate the bigger screen. Now i know something the size of the the note isn't to everyones taste, but the bigger screen makes surfing the net, games , calenders, in fact most stuff much easier.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Did you dictate that post?

Of course. And this one too!

 

[Scampi]

I think you've been unlucky. Geniuses are given a fair amount of discretion about how they treat each situation they deal with. Another Genius in the shop on the same day would probably have given you a different experience.

I think thats likely true, but it is illustrative of my experience with apple.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

To be really productive on a phone whilst on the move, another input mechanism is required - speech is the most likely to succeed right now.

On which topic, even DragonDictate for the iPhone 3GS which I have is surprisingly good. And it's completely speaker independent!

I was amazed at how good Siri is, when I tried it in the Apple Store in Brighton recently. I mean, in terms of speech recognition, rather than results then delivered. – I've just dictated this post Using Dragon NaturallySpeaking, and the only correction I've had to make is to the word Siri – which I now have to add to my directory/dictionary.

In short, these dictation systems really are that good, as long as you're prepared to spend a bit of time teaching them. (End of post – All dictated non-stop.)

 

[tycoon0_0]

Apple products do, generally, retail for a premium price - the much-fabled 'Apple tax'. But you get so, so much for that.

I'm typing this on my MacBook Pro which is a shade over 3 years old now. As much as I'd love one of the new retina display MBPs, I really have no need to change - this is still as slick as it was when it was new. It never needs re-booting, I just 'shut the lid' when I'm done and open it again when I want to use it. It never skips a beat. My experience with PC laptops, and I use one 8-9 hours a day at work (unfortunately) is the complete opposite. Well before three years of ownership you'll have rebuilt the thing several times or you'll just have given up and bought a new one. It needs to be restarted continually including, most annoyingly, almost any time any software is updated. We're not in the 1990s any more.

The iPad is a wonderful, wonderful thing and I've not seen a single report of any merit that concludes that any other tablet has the beating of it. The iPad still is THE tablet marketplace. Android tablets have been so utterly woeful that Google have now taken to bringing their own out (manufactured by Asus) as Samsung, Motorola et al are just not denting the iPad at all. I wrote about the new Nexus 7 the other day and it's clearly a great bit of kit for those looking for a cheap tablet. I've even ordered one. In conjunction with Google's "Project Butter" in Jelly Bean which, supposedly, has finally got rid of most of the lag that they acknowledge has blighted Android - it should do well.

Phones - on the leading edge it seems that Apple and Samsung keep leapfrogging each other now. Modern smartphones of all flavours are incredibly powerful and none of them are bad. Away from that leading edge however and the difference between iOS and Android is stark - Apple really look after their older devices for as long as technically possible, Android devices are largely abandoned. Google are quite embarrassed about this, as they revealed at last year's I/O. Their problem is their handset manufacturers are, Samsung aside, not making any money - how can they afford to ensure they support older devices?

If you've made an investment in either iOS or Android you're likely to stay where you are, and why shouldn't you - you have a familiar interface and some cash invested in apps that you won't want to re-buy.

Away from the pure technical side, the support. Two examples from me...

- My daughter dropped her 6 month old iPod Touch on concrete. It landed face down and smashed the screen. I took it back to Apple to find out the cost of repair. They just gave me a new one there and then and said "tell her to try and not do it again."

- My MBP developed a couple of occasional red pixels a couple of months ago, when it was around 3 years old. I took it back to see the cost of repair and, again, they replaced the whole screen unit - a cost of c£250 - for free. A couple of pixels like that is well within the 'tolerance' for displays and most manufacturers would tell you to live with it.

You'd have to try hard to convince me I'd have received the same exceptional service with Asus or Samsung devices bought from Carphone Warehouse or something.

Bozza is 100% correct in everything he has said.

I work for Everything Everywhere (Company which owns both Orange & T-mobile) and deal with sales, returns, complaints, repairs etc.

Apple products are at the top of their markets, in every market they are in. iPhone - number 1 selling phone worldwide. iPad - number 1 selling tablet worldwide. MacBook Pro - recognised as the best laptop money can buy. iPod - number 1selling mp3 player worldwide.

Apple are more expensive than rival products. Why? Because they do not cut corners. All components and materials used in Apple products are the best available. Not the cheapest as found with many rivals. Each new product designed is an opportunity for Apple to scout the world for the best screws, SSD's, buttons for keyboards. Everything. And after testing them to death, they will use the best components and materials.

They also spends billions on their software. The software running both laptops and iMacs is years ahead of anything Microsoft churns out, with far less defects and security problems too. Macs ARE susceptible to viruses. It is a myth they're not, but the way the machines are internally designed means that a virus affects them very differently. The easiest way to explain it is; that a windows computer is set up like a row of dominos, once a virus has infected the computer, and knocks one domino over there is the potential for this rest of the dominos to be knocked over too, allowing the virus to spread like wildfire throughout the computer.

With an Apple computer, imagine each individual program is designed in a grid system. iTunes is in its own grid. Safari is next to it but completely separate in its owns grid. Hundreds of applications are in one place, but are completely separate. If, for example iTunes gets a virus, that virus will not be able to infect other applications as the virus can not leave the grid. By uninstalling iTunes, then reinstalling it the virus will be removed and will have not been able to spread. There are of course cases where this is bypassed but does stop the majority of common viruses and Trojans from causing the distractions so well known to many windows PC users.

On to phones. Up until very recently the iPhone has been on par ondly with itself. The Samsung Galaxy SII was a good phone but still not match for the iPhone 4 or subsequent 4s. But now the markets is much more interesting. HTC have two exceptional handsets in the One S & X. Beautifully crafted handsets, amazing screen quality and running an OS which is very close to Apple's current iOS 5. And Samsung really have outdone themselves with the SIII, while aesthetically it is still not great (the SII felt cheap and lightweight) the software designed specifically by them is very impressive. The camera has some great tricks and the facial recognition software that keeps the phones screen active while your eyes are still looking at the screen is a first of its kind (in the UK anyway).

BUT. It does not change the fact hat Apple's iOS 5 is still a far superior system. Let's be clear, the iPhone was 5 years old this week, and because of this has had a head start on Android that will take time to be caught up on. iOS 5 has literally no faults. Sure, things occasisionally go wrong as with any product ever made. But it works. It does not, like Android 1/10 times load up from being turned on and not load a certain part of the software ( number one offender on a Samsung Galaxy SII is the dialer not loading up as part of the phone app, meaning the user can not dial numbers not already saved as a contact).

It is small holes in the Android operating system like this that shows its weakness. By allowing for the OS to be used by a number of different manufacturers it is difficult for full integration to be fully functional. Each manufacturer, be it Sony, HTC, Samsung, Motorola etc will overlay their own software ontop of Android and this an sometimes caused conflict within the phone. HTC's Sense was particularly bad in the past for causing issues with the core Android operating system. As Bozza touched on, the other issue with Android is the sporadic way the updates have been released. New handsets will be released with the software pre-installed but handsets even a month older or more will have to wait. Sometimes it will be a few weeks but some phones less than a year old are still awaiting an upgrade to Android's latest OS Ice Cream Sandwich. I have also seen a number of phones literally being broken by upgrading to the latest OS due to Google not taking the time and effort needed to re-customise the update to fit the phones capabilities. This week alone I have dealth with 3 HTC desire S's which will not turn on after completing the update because the version installed is to much for the processor to handle.

In terms of the handsets themselves, the iPhone is expensive and the debacle with the signal issues the iPhone 4 had was a low for the company but they did resolve the issue fairly swiftly with a software update. Since then there really hasn't been an issue, so one actual global problem apart it's been a very successful 5 years for Apple. While the iPhone 4/4s doesn't set the world alighting terms of design, it is subtle while not boring and is designed in a minimalistic way that seems to be widely liked.

The SIII, as I said earlier is a really good phone. Along with the HTC's it has set a new level for which top-end smart phones are to compete with. It's design is definitely a love it or hate it, and it still has a fairly plasticy feel and look which compared to the HTC's, iPhones and even the new Sony range does not really hold up too well.

What the success of the new Android phones has done though is create proper competition. While some may argue the Samsung Galaxy SII did this, it as still substandard to the iPhone but now the iPhone is playing catchup. It is likely that seeing these new phones has given Apple a bit of a scare which hopefully will ensure they go for broke with the iPhone 5. And that is where we stand now, the pending release of the iPhone 5 is eagerly awaited to see just what Apple can do to fend off these much improved Android smartphones.

Oh and just on the O/P until location services are developed for Siri it is a fairly useless feature but that said the version found on the SIII is equally as inept and is there purely because of a "Apple has it so we have to have it on our phone" Mentality from Samsung. In Japan there are two voice recognition systems that are years ahead that actually work properly (apologies, the names escape me). And as someone else has mentioned, Dragon Naturally Speaking has been around for YEARS and that is proper voice recognition software.

 

[CheeseRolls]

This is something that is clearly missing from the debate. Too many people are wasting money on kit, when the money should be spent on something more important.
You can pick up an Android phone with a 1ghz processor for around 75 quid or an Android 4 phone on contract from around 9 quid a month inc 500mb of data a month.
You won't beat the apple boys at top trumps, you will have a fully functional smart phone.

 

[jgmcdee]

BUT. It does not change the fact hat Apple's iOS 5 is still a far superior system. Let's be clear, the iPhone was 5 years old this week, and because of this has had a head start on Android that will take time to be caught up on. iOS 5 has literally no faults. Sure, things occasisionally go wrong as with any product ever made. But it works. It does not, like Android 1/10 times load up from being turned on and not load a certain part of the software ( number one offender on a Samsung Galaxy SII is the dialer not loading up as part of the phone app, meaning the user can not dial numbers not already saved as a contact).

Sorry, but that's crap. My wife and I have ran with SII 'phones for about a year and never saw this issue at all. Frequent turning it off and on (lots of international travel so I swapped SIMs a lot) so plenty of chance to experience this.

I have also seen a number of phones literally being broken by upgrading to the latest OS due to Google not taking the time and effort needed to re-customise the update to fit the phones capabilities.

And that's just confused. It's the handset manufacturers' changes on top of a given version of Android that cause the delays between a new version of Android coming out and being available for a given handset, nothing to do with Google.

I've used a lot of Apple products in my time and there is a huge amount of effort put in to the user interface, certainly, and in fact more effort put in to the hardware over the last couple of years than ever before, but they aren't the God products that a lot of people make them out to be.

Also, from a programmer's point of view Android is a far more open, accessible and functional environment than iOS. And that, in the end, is what's going to drive Android adoption further and faster than any of the other platforms.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is something that is clearly missing from the debate. Too many people are wasting money on kit, when the money should be spent on something more important.
You can pick up an Android phone with a 1ghz processor for around 75 quid or an Android 4 phone on contract from around 9 quid a month inc 500mb of data a month.
You won't beat the apple boys at top trumps, you will have a fully functional smart phone.

aye, while the gadget freaks and fanbois get in the pissing contests, Andriod is queitly hoovering up the market a teir below, caning Microsoft and Nokia, even RIM now looks stuffed. it has been commented that Apple is effectivel locked out of the entire thrid world market due to the high cost of their phones. still, they make money, so thats the important thing right? well, as long as the shareholder are happy, but when the growth hits a brick wall it will be interesting how Apple reacts, if they introduce mid and bottom end iphones?

 

[Albion Dan]

I think you've been unlucky. Geniuses are given a fair amount of discretion about how they treat each situation they deal with. Another Genius in the shop on the same day would probably have given you a different experience.

Are people who work in Apple stores called Geniuses? Oh please tell me that is true.

 

[tycoon0_0]

Sorry, but that's crap. My wife and I have ran with SII 'phones for about a year and never saw this issue at all. Frequent turning it off and on (lots of international travel so I swapped SIMs a lot) so plenty of chance to experience this.

Sorry, just because YOU personally haven't experienced the issue, does not make it "crap". There are millions of SII handsets, have I said that every single one of them suffers from this issue? No. I have merely stated that from the experience I have of dealing with customers issues on a daily basis, it IS an issue that I see regularly. Who has the wider range of knowledge here, you with TWO handsets or me, who deals with TWO faulty Samsung phones a week. Minimum.

And that's just confused. It's the handset manufacturers' changes on top of a given version of Android that cause the delays between a new version of Android coming out and being available for a given handset, nothing to do with Google.

I've used a lot of Apple products in my time and there is a huge amount of effort put in to the user interface, certainly, and in fact more effort put in to the hardware over the last couple of years than ever before, but they aren't the God products that a lot of people make them out to be.

Also, from a programmer's point of view Android is a far more open, accessible and functional environment than iOS. And that, in the end, is what's going to drive Android adoption further and faster than any of the other platforms.

It is not confused, I think possibly you are getting confused though. Google create the initial update. If the update package they then hand over to the manufacturer is too big for a phone that has a 1Ghz processor for example, then regardless of any overlaying software the manufacturer adds on, it will, from the start been too much for the phone to handle. If Google took the time to look back across the Android market of say, the last 2 years and recognise that from 2 years ago to the present smartphones on offer there is a massive difference in the performance capabilities, they would and should be able to create different versions of the update to fit the pre-existing phones running Android. This would stop phones crashing or becoming ridiculously slow once updated and not make users feel their phone is now obsolete just because it can't run the latest OS update to its full potential.

As much as there are "Apple fan boys" out there, there is an increasing amount of basically "anti-Apple fan boys" who basically can't stand the fact there is a product and company so far ahead of the game. The facts prove that Apple products are the best. Any argument against is null and void. But, as with anything in life I respect anyone who feels their Samsung or HTC or Sony is better for them. That it may suit their needs more, or they may feel that they want to run a tablet and a phone on the same OS but don't want to pay the Apple prices.

Finally, yes Android is more open from a programmer's point of view, but as Bozza rightly pointed out earlier in the thread, you make sweet f/a out of developing apps for Android. Apple's App Store market is far more lucrative and that will continue to be until Google start allowing developers to make more money out of it.

 

[jgmcdee]

Sorry, just because YOU personally haven't experienced the issue, does not make it "crap". There are millions of SII handsets, have I said that every single one of them suffers from this issue? No. I have merely stated that from the experience I have of dealing with customers issues on a daily basis, it IS an issue that I see regularly. Who has the wider range of knowledge here, you with TWO handsets or me, who deals with TWO faulty Samsung phones a week. Minimum.

And that's why I called "crap". You said that this is a problem that happens "1/10" times an Android 'phone is turned on. Yet you see two (or more as you say) 'phones a week, no doubt for all problems. Even if someone suffered through 5 incidences of this before they sent it on to you you're either dealing with a very small population of 'phones or you've grossly over-represented the failure rate.

It is not confused, I think possibly you are getting confused though.

...

If the update package they then hand over to the manufacturer is too big for a phone that has a 1Ghz processor for example

No really, you're confused. Size doesn't apply to CPU power so "big" is just the wrong word here. Too big for the 'phones storage? Maybe. Too CPU-intensive for the processor? Perhaps. But too big for the processor? Just no.

not make users feel their phone is now obsolete just because it can't run the latest OS update to its full potential.

My iPhone 3G didn't get voice control when upgraded to iOS 3.

My iPhone 3GS was rendered pretty much unusable when upgraded to iOS 4 thanks to the introduction of multitasking that slowed my 'phone to a crawl after a few hours of use.

What's your point?

As much as there are "Apple fan boys" out there, there is an increasing amount of basically "anti-Apple fan boys" who basically can't stand the fact there is a product and company so far ahead of the game.

Personally I don't care who's name is on the badge, I really don't. I'm typing this on a Macbook and it's a very nice laptop, no doubt about it. I use an Android 'phone because it lets me do the things I want to do on a 'phone and doesn't get in my way. I run Windows on my desktop computer because it gives me the widest range of software that I need to do my job. And I wouldn't dream of putting anything other than linux on a server right now, anything from a home server up to a high-end data centre box.

It's horses for courses, which I'm very happy with. What I'm not so much a fan of is the blind zealotry that decides that one product/manufacturer is "best" and everyone else's opinions are either misguided or factually inaccurate.

Christ, it's like talking about football teams!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

As much as there are "Apple fan boys" out there, there is an increasing amount of basically "anti-Apple fan boys" who basically can't stand the fact there is a product and company so far ahead of the game. The facts prove that Apple products are the best. Any argument against is null and void. But, as with anything in life I respect anyone who feels their Samsung or HTC or Sony is better for them. That it may suit their needs more, or they may feel that they want to run a tablet and a phone on the same OS but don't want to pay the Apple prices.

I love this quote. It reminds me of Glenn Murray on any of the multitude of palace threads.

 

[tycoon0_0]

And that's why I called "crap". You said that this is a problem that happens "1/10" times an Android 'phone is turned on. Yet you see two (or more as you say) 'phones a week, no doubt for all problems. Even if someone suffered through 5 incidences of this before they sent it on to you you're either dealing with a very small population of 'phones or you've grossly over-represented the failure rate.

The example I provided was just that, an example. There will be many times that an Android phone is running with a fault that the user hasn't noticed/ hasn't encountered for weeks. But they are common.

No really, you're confused. Size doesn't apply to CPU power so "big" is just the wrong word here. Too big for the 'phones storage? Maybe. Too CPU-intensive for the processor? Perhaps. But too big for the processor? Just no.

No confusion. Forgive me for using small words, it would seem ignorant of me to start using jargon on a forum where all levels of understanding can read posts. The size of a programme and the subsequent performance needed by the processor to cater for said programme is directly relevant to the size and speed of the processor. You said it yourself that your iPhone 3GS struggled with the iOS4 update, and that is an example, as with the Android updates, of an OS update being made but didn't have different versions made for different phones with different processor speeds.

My iPhone 3G didn't get voice control when upgraded to iOS 3.

My iPhone 3GS was rendered pretty much unusable when upgraded to iOS 4 thanks to the introduction of multitasking that slowed my 'phone to a crawl after a few hours of use.

What's your point?

The phone is still usable. I've experienced 3GS's running up-to-date OS's and yes they are slower but they very rarely outright crash and stop working. The difference is that Apple's update to iOS4 for almost 18 months after the release of the 3GS. And it still works. Yes there was some elements which didn't work on the phone but that was due to hardware not software differences between say the 3GS and the 4.

Personally I don't care who's name is on the badge, I really don't. I'm typing this on a Macbook and it's a very nice laptop, no doubt about it. I use an Android 'phone because it lets me do the things I want to do on a 'phone and doesn't get in my way. I run Windows on my desktop computer because it gives me the widest range of software that I need to do my job. And I wouldn't dream of putting anything other than linux on a server right now, anything from a home server up to a high-end data centre box.

It's horses for courses, which I'm very happy with. What I'm not so much a fan of is the blind zealotry that decides that one product/manufacturer is "best" and everyone else's opinions are either misguided or factually inaccurate.

Christ, it's like talking about football teams!

And I do agree. I use windows at work, I agree with what you say about Linux. I personally am an Apple user across the board but through where i work now in the mobile phone industry, and before that working for PC world and being at an age where I am constantly surrounded by the latest technology I have had my fair share of experiences with most of the available options out there.

Some of the people I work use Android, some Apple, one even uses the Nokia Lumia 710 running Windows. We have banter about phones but I respect their choice to use what they use and I do see the benefits. What I would still argue though is that if Android and Apple products were available at the same price, can we really argue that as many people would still opt for Android,and of they did would it be for actual functionality or in a stand against using Apple?