Am I missing the point about tuition fees?

[ROSM]

The bank bonuses fiasco was and is an obscenity. Some reason that if the banks don't give the bonuses, then the greedy staff will go elsewhere to get such remuneration, but I'm not sure that holds water. Mr Brown made a grave error when he loosened the banks from the shackles of the Bank of England which allowed individual banks to do their own thing, rather than be constrained by the Bank of England. Although the banks got themselves (and us) into hot water, they had to be rescued, because too many ordinary people had savings, mortgages, loans and other business with the banks and that business has to carry on. If the banks hadn't been rescued, then we would have found ourselves in the same situation as that which precipitated the crash of the 1920s-30s, when people rushed to the banks to remove their money. For those who get there quick enough, that's fine, but it would mean millions more would loose their savings and assets, and never see them again.

Actually labour increased regulation on banks albeit at the micro level rather than the macro level. The lowering of macro regulation actually started in the early 90's. As for the comment on greedy staff - that's very Daily Mail. It is wrong to judge all banks and bank staff as some morally corrup enterprise or set of individuals.

 

[HovaGirl]

An interesting theory - especially using the term beliefs.

Welcome to the political debate on NSC. I like your approach even though I disagree with you on much of what you've written. Anybody who honestly believes the NHS is worse off after the 13 years of labour government is in cloud cuckoo land. It may be that the improvement may not seem to have been worth the many billions by some - that is their belief. But waiting lists are down, survival rates are up and the number of patients successfully treated has increased.

Who also did most to scrap apprenticeships and encourage university attendance? Not the last government that's for sure - although it will be to my eternal chagrin that they didn't do more to move back to that approach. This current government wont that's for sure!

Whichever way you look at it, the rot started with Mrs Thatcher, but then, she had inherited her own financial mess. She sold off national assets, such as council housing, the gas and electricity boards, the railways, etc, to raise money to reduce the state deficit which had built up since before WWII and even more so after it. The sale of the council houses was a huge mistake, for the very simple reason that it reduced the housing stock for those who couldn't afford to buy their own homes. The result was also that more people than ever used house-buying and selling as a cash cow, a means for investment, rather than simply somewhere to live. That was compounded by Gordon Brown allowing the banks to have a free-for-all in lending vast sums of money to people who, realistically, couldn't actually afford to buy their own homes, and house prices shot up.

But she committed many other sins, starting with taking school milk away from children. Another gross error was to demolish the Grammar School system, a system which worked so effectively, that Britain was envied for having the best education system in the world. The Grammar Schools, rather than being elitist or socially divisive, was actually a mechanism for poorer children to receive a public-school type of education which the state paid for. This kind of education is expensive, so not everyone could go to Grammar School and there had to be some means of choosing which children would be best suited to that kind of education. These children were, in effect, being educated to go to university at a time when a degree still meant something.

Then John Major compounded this, by turning all the polytechnics into universities. There was little wrong with the old system of sending school-leavers to these colleges to learn a vocational skill specifically designed to help them find a job, and there was little wrong with the old day-release apprenticeship system of training. The development of the NVQ was another disaster. I can't even remember who thought that one up.

Basically, all the major political parties have cocked up our once great system. And great damage has been done.

I would also say the opposite to you, that anyone who believes the NHS is better-off after 13 years of Labour is in cloud-cuckoo land! Statistics can say whatever you want. An important statistic would be the proportion or percentage of people who actually receive successful treatment. I live abroad, but even though I paid NI and tax for more than 30 years, I'm not actually allowed to use the NHS system I helped to pay for. Yes all sorts of foreigners can step onto our shores, and clog up the system. Without paying a penny.

 

[HovaGirl]

Actually labour increased regulation on banks albeit at the micro level rather than the macro level. The lowering of macro regulation actually started in the early 90's. As for the comment on greedy staff - that's very Daily Mail. It is wrong to judge all banks and bank staff as some morally corrup enterprise or set of individuals.

That's very true, but on a forum like this, generalisations are a sad necessity.

 

[bhaexpress]

Slightly off the point but I have worked in most industries over the years. I used to think that when it comes to wasting money that oil companies and pharmaceutical companies were the biggest wasters but having worked for a bank the way they chuck money down the drain beggars belief. Not strictly to the point but worth noting especially as now so much public money has been used to bail them out. I find the idea of paying bonuses to certain bank staff inexcusable and the fact that these people might want to go elsewhere then let them, there'll always be somebody who can step into their shoes. If you are going to penalise students the the same approach should be used unilaterally.

 

[El Presidente]

Could someone direct me to NSC please, I appear to have wandered into an A Level Economics website by mistake.

 

[ROSM]

I would also say the opposite to you, that anyone who believes the NHS is better-off after 13 years of Labour is in cloud-cuckoo land! Statistics can say whatever you want. An important statistic would be the proportion or percentage of people who actually receive successful treatment. I live abroad, but even though I paid NI and tax for more than 30 years, I'm not actually allowed to use the NHS system I helped to pay for. Yes all sorts of foreigners can step onto our shores, and clog up the system. Without paying a penny.

well you can ask those who work in it - that's not relying on stats but on those day to day who have to treat patients. May I ask why you live abroad? I think if you still have citizenship then you are allowed to use it (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[ROSM]

Could someone direct me to NSC please, I appear to have wandered into an A Level Economics website by mistake.

Grade me El Press GRADE ME x

 

[Stoo82]

Could someone direct me to NSC please, I appear to have wandered into an A Level Economics website by mistake.

Brighton Titty Bars

 

[ROSM]

That's very true, but on a forum like this, generalisations are a sad necessity.

I tend to find facts are a necessity. Generalisations are just a diversion. People like you always used them

 

[El Presidente]

Grade me El Press GRADE ME x

Come up to my office and we can go through this together x

 

[bhaexpress]

Could someone direct me to NSC please, I appear to have wandered into an A Level Economics website by mistake.

With teachers like this is it any wonder that the soap dodgers are so misguided ?

 

[ROSM]

Come up to my office and we can go through this together x

I said GRADE not DEGRADE

 

[El Presidente]

I said GRADE not DEGRADE

I have been BANNED by the A level board that I used to write exams for. I think it was connected to a paper what I wrote that featured a parent company called Hand plc with a subsidiary called Shandy Ltd, a question about the ethics and environmental impact of a UK mining company sending divers to the island of Muff to search for raw materials for pearl necklaces off a coral reef, and a furniture retailer with a CEO called Chester Drawes.

There is no place left for creativity in this country anymore.

You will be delighted to know that NSC features prominently in my current exams though, and the advance revenue recognition rules issues in relation to a refuse collection conference called Binfest 2011 were actually commended by the external examiners!

 

[HovaGirl]

well you can ask those who work in it - that's not relying on stats but on those day to day who have to treat patients. May I ask why you live abroad? I think if you still have citizenship then you are allowed to use it (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong).

No, ex-pats are not allowed to use the NHS system. And when you return from abroad, it takes many months, perhaps up to a year, to get "back into the system". I don't know why.

I don't live abroad through choice. I had to give up my own career to follow my husband, because his company closed their London office and opened it here. We had commitments, shall we say, which forced us to follow his salary. We could not afford to do otherwise, and we still cannot afford to come back to the UK, though we badly want to.

 

[HovaGirl]

Brighton Titty Bars

Hmm. Brighton bars titties.

 

[HovaGirl]

I tend to find facts are a necessity. Generalisations are just a diversion. People like you always used them

And on what sort of basis do you make that generalisation?

 

[Tooting Gull]

I have been BANNED by the A level board that I used to write exams for. I think it was connected to a paper what I wrote that featured a parent company called Hand plc with a subsidiary called Shandy Ltd, a question about the ethics and environmental impact of a UK mining company sending divers to the island of Muff to search for raw materials for pearl necklaces off a coral reef, and a furniture retailer with a CEO called Chester Drawes.

There is no place left for creativity in this country anymore.

You will be delighted to know that NSC features prominently in my current exams though, and the advance revenue recognition rules issues in relation to a refuse collection conference called Binfest 2011 were actually commended by the external examiners!

Outstanding.

Just on Lord B's thread-starter, I think he exposes (yet) another logic flaw from the coalition.

But clearly it isn't the main point, which is that NOT EVERY kid is going to rack up the £9k a year fees debt in the first place. Kids from middle-class parents will be subbed to some degree, so they won't have the debt, and the future repayments, or the difficult decision to make in the first place. This is so obvious that only a cretin could fail to see it. Or a dogma-driven Tory.

 

[drew]

Well, I was going to respond to many of hovagirls rantings but in the end just came to the conclusion that she is, or at least is in training to be, a journ for that illustrious paper the Daily Mail. At least she has now been seen to use the multi-quote button if only a couple of times. That's progress for you.

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

Well, I was going to respond to many of hovagirls rantings but in the end just came to the conclusion that she is, or at least is in training to be, a journ for that illustrious paper the Daily Mail. At least she has now been seen to use the multi-quote button if only a couple of times. That's progress for you.

You're too late. Someone else got in with the obligatory "must be a Daily Mail reader" comment. I think you can still be the first to mention Thatcher in this thread and we haven't had Godwin's law yet so you could also accuse Hovagirl of that too.

 

[drew]

You're too late. Someone else got in with the obligatory "must be a Daily Mail reader" comment. I think you can still be the first to mention Thatcher in this thread and we haven't had Godwin's law yet so you could also accuse Hovagirl of that too.

Thatcher's already been done, by hovagirl herself.