All the magic has gone

[Brovion]

Do NOT blame Manchester United! Yes it was a bad decision but it could have been treated as a one-off. The people to blame are the fans, especially all those who've caught 'premierleague-itis' off the likes of Reading, Bolton, Blackburn, etc in thinking that the league (whichever one that is) is the be-all and end-all. I'm sick of reading on here that promotion is the priority 'this year' and therefore the cup doesn't matter. Assuming we get promotion what about next season? What if we're struggling? I bet then the cry will be: "The cup doesn't matter this year, what's important is that we stay in the Championship." Or what if we're near the top? It'll be: "The cup doesn't matter this year, what's important is that we get into the Premiership." And given the obssession with league tables you can take it as read that one of those options will be a probability next year.

So do you see? If you have that attitude then the FA Cup will NEVER be important to us again, it will always be second to league position. So anybody who has ever said "Sod the Cup, I'd rather we got three points against Ragarse Rovers." YOU'VE killed the cup. Wankers.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The 'magic' of the FA cup has always been the opportunity for the 'plucky underdog' to knock out higher placed opposition. In a final, most neutrals would be wanting the underdog to win. Tv coverage is saturated every weekend with live football whereas the Cup Final day was something to look forward to and savour. Now it's just another game to neutrals.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Do NOT blame Manchester United! Yes it was a bad decision but it could have been treated as a one-off. The people to blame are the fans, especially all those who've caught 'premierleague-itis' off the likes of Reading, Bolton, Blackburn, etc in thinking that the league (whichever one that is) is the be-all and end-all. I'm sick of reading on here that promotion is the priority 'this year' and therefore the cup doesn't matter. Assuming we get promotion what about next season? What if we're struggling? I bet then the cry will be: "The cup doesn't matter this year, what's important is that we stay in the Championship." Or what if we're near the top? It'll be: "The cup doesn't matter this year, what's important is that we get into the Premiership." And given the obssession with league tables you can take it as read that one of those options will be a probability next year.

So do you see? If you have that attitude then the FA Cup will NEVER be important to us again, it will always be second to league position. So anybody who has ever said "Sod the Cup, I'd rather we got three points against Ragarse Rovers." YOU'VE killed the cup. Wankers.

well said, that is the nail on head. game over, man!

 

[BLOCK F]

Do NOT blame Manchester United! Yes it was a bad decision but it could have been treated as a one-off. The people to blame are the fans, especially all those who've caught 'premierleague-itis' off the likes of Reading, Bolton, Blackburn, etc in thinking that the league (whichever one that is) is the be-all and end-all. I'm sick of reading on here that promotion is the priority 'this year' and therefore the cup doesn't matter. Assuming we get promotion what about next season? What if we're struggling? I bet then the cry will be: "The cup doesn't matter this year, what's important is that we stay in the Championship." Or what if we're near the top? It'll be: "The cup doesn't matter this year, what's important is that we get into the Premiership." And given the obssession with league tables you can take it as read that one of those options will be a probability next year.

So do you see? If you have that attitude then the FA Cup will NEVER be important to us again, it will always be second to league position. So anybody who has ever said "Sod the Cup, I'd rather we got three points against Ragarse Rovers." YOU'VE killed the cup. Wankers.

ELoquently put,but I would add that managers and their chairmen have something to do with it as well!

 

[Giraffe]

The thing is Gus goes on about how Leeds last season got distracted by the cup and how terrible that was for them, bit he is forgetting about the fans. Can you imagine what it meant to their fans to win at Man Utd and nearly beat Spurs, and they still went up anyway!! Managers who don't take the cups seriously are forgetting the intangible benefits a cup run has with fans. The turning point in keeping my son a seagulls fan for example was when we beat Man City. Finally he had some street cred in the playground. The cup is great for fans, and given that the fans are surely the whole point of football managers should be taking it more seriously. But as others have said making a champions league qualification place for the winners would make a big difference.

 

[Brovion]

ELoquently put,but I would add that managers and their chairmen have something to do with it as well!

Oh sure, in fact the 'disease' started with the P.L. chairmen and managers and spread downwards. First it was to their fans, all now brainwashed into believing than premier league survival is all that matter, and then to fans of clubs like us. The view at our level tends to be: "we're not going to win the Cup so why bother?"

In the 'old days' I'd have really looked forward to a 3rd Round match against Portsmouth. It would have been the sort of draw I'd have dreamt about at the start of the season. Now, assuming we get through, I'm almost tempted to ask what's the point? We may not take the match seriously, and even if we do and go on to win they'll be a proportion of Brighton fans moaning that we've still got the 'distraction' of the Cup!

 

[Brovion]

The thing is Gus goes on about how Leeds last season got distracted by the cup and how terrible that was for them, bit he is forgetting about the fans. Can you imagine what it meant to their fans to win at Man Utd and nearly beat Spurs, and they still went up anyway!! Managers who don't take the cups seriously are forgetting the intangible benefits a cup run has with fans. The turning point in keeping my son a seagulls fan for example was when we beat Man City. Finally he had some street cred in the playground. The cup is great for fans, and given that the fans are surely the whole point of football managers should be taking it more seriously. But as others have said making a champions league qualification place for the winners would make a big difference.

Absolutely spot-on. I've mentioned it before but in the 1976-77 promotion season I went to nearly all (about 40) of the league games. Most of them I've completely forgotten about. However the three games I'll never forget are the three League Cup games against WBA, Ipswich and Derby. The memory of those three games still cheer me up even today.

They also were good for the team. Firstly it allowed us to keep momentum going. Secondly it confirmed what we'd all thought that this team were GOOD. The confidence gained from playing and beating 'premiership' oppositon was immense. There was NO downside, there was NO distraction from the League campaign, and when we lost the replay to Derby there was a genuine sadness that the ride had ended and a real desire to make sure that soon we'd be playing the likes of Derby as equals and not as plucky underdogs. Plus we'd made the football world sit up and take notice, including some in Sussex who joined the Albion bandwaggon on the back of our Cup success.

So all this "lets concentrate on the league" and "I'd rather get three points against Ragarse Rovers" is BOLLOCKS total BOLLOCKS. It's for LOSERS. A good cup campaign does not automatically mean a drop-off in the league.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The best cup run we ever had resulted in relegation.

 

[Brovion]

The best cup run we ever had resulted in relegation.

But if we'd lost, say, to Newcastle in that replay, would we have stayed up? We were going to get relegated sooner or later from the top division anyway no matter how much we 'concentrated' on it. At least we went down with something to remember as opposed to enduring another year or two more of struggle before succumbing to the inevitable.

One of the great things about 1983 is that no one said "we should forget the Cup and concentrate on the League." No one. That would have been the little homily we'd have said to ourselves if we had got knocked out.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

In the 'old days' I'd have really looked forward to a 3rd Round match against Portsmouth. It would have been the sort of draw I'd have dreamt about at the start of the season. Now, assuming we get through, I'm almost tempted to ask what's the point?

Indeed - I can still remember the tie against Portsmouth in 2002-03 (cracking header by Matthew Edwards, almost a carbon copy of his one earlier in the season against Manchester United) and Beeney's save in front of the South Stand. We then went on to play MU at Old Trafford (can't remember if Woking came before or after Pompey, perhaps someone remembers). That game was an absolute thrill to me. Okay, Pompey were missing Guy Wittingham, but the fact we had beaten them was enough for me. Then to more than match MU and only lose to a Giggs special was even better. However, I must say that watching Albion in the league in those days was depressing, so the cups made a welcome distraction, though the games against Liverpool two seasons before were just as thrilling, giving me a sense that we might compete at the highest level again, even though we were flying high in the league too.

Nowadays, I'm in two minds about such things. Did anyone particularly care that we were completely outclassed by Preston in 2001-02 when Bobby was banging in all his goals? Not really, though it did show that we were nowhere near ready for Division One, as the next season showed. It annoys us as fans when Gus doesn't take the cup games seriously, but I can understand why he does it. We have a limited squad, and as Tricky Dicky says, promotion could set us up for years, whereas remaining in League One for any length of time at the Amex would be a serious setback. What does worry me is the message that it conveys to the players - Gus may give maximum priority to the league, less to the FA Cup. Are the players capable of switching their priority though? Not giving your full effort in one game can carry on into the next, along with the point I have made in other threads about the Woking changes possibly disrupting the team's rhythm. The one player who does not fit into this category is the much-maligned Gary Hart, who will play his heart out regardless of whether the game is in the league or the Sussex Senior Cup.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The drop in status is really driven by money: The Premier League Top 4 focus on Champions League. Position 5 to 12 are chasing a place in Europe. Places 13 to 20 are desperately trying to avoid relegation. The Top 10 in the Championship all prioritise on getting into the Prem.

If you're lucky there are one or two shocks along the way though frequently driven by "Goliath" having taken their eye off the ball. You only have to recall Barnsley's 2008 heroics against Chelsea and Liverpool to see that.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Yes very true.

What also makes this worse is the fact that we could always point to our cup final appearance as something special. Nowadays saying that to someone under a certain age means absolutely f*** all.

This is why only Palace away would be a good draw. Nothing else matters

Surely Pompey away aint that bad - if of course Gus wants to win the replay...

 

[Simster]

One of the great things about 1983 is that no one said "we should forget the Cup and concentrate on the League." No one. That would have been the little homily we'd have said to ourselves if we had got knocked out.

As has been said, it's all down to money.

In the Premiership, ever league position is worth £720,000, which is more prize money than the winners of the FA Cup get I think. So in practice, this means that Wigan may sit 15th after 37 games, but if that final 3 points takes them more than one place higher up the table, then there is more money at stake in that game than in the FA Cup final itself.
It's safe to assume that clubs would rather win the cup in that scenario than throw themselves into an otherwise meangingless league game, but at the extremes of the table I imagine the league takes priority because obviously the financial riches at stake at the top (Champs league) and bottom (relegation) exacerabate the problem considerably.

Ultimately, offering a Champions League place to the winners of the FA Cup would resolve the issue at a stroke.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Ultimately, offering a Champions League place to the winners of the FA Cup would resolve the issue at a stroke.

Only for teams that thought they stood a chance of winning the competition, and even then they'd play a 2nd string if they thought they could win without their 1st team, i.e. against lower league opposition.

 

[Simster]

Only for teams that thought they stood a chance of winning the competition

I'd say that loads of mid ranking Premiership sides would fall into that category. Teams like Everton, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle would all see winning the FAC as a ticket to Europe's top table. They'd all take it seriously.

...and even then they'd play a 2nd string if they thought they could win without their 1st team, i.e. against lower league opposition.

I accept that but I don't actually have a problem with it. If the likes of Villa think they can turn over the likes of Portsmouth or Sheff Utd by playing the stiffs, let them try it. If there was a Champions League place at stake for the winners, I doubt they'd think it was worth the risk, especially if the game was beyond the 4th round.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Ultimately, offering a Champions League place to the winners of the FA Cup would resolve the issue at a stroke.

I may well be wrong, but I THINK there is a UEFA ruling, that only teams from each domestic top division are eligible, so that would probably kybosh that idea.

I think from the POV of a club our size, its short-sighted to write off the cup, to concentrate on league position. A cup run, even just to the 4th round, given the right draw, might pay for the January signing who ultimately helps win you promotion.

Lets hope we approach the FCUM replay properly, because I for one, take any game against Portsmouth very seriously indeed. The cheating inbred pricks.

 

[Storer68]

Part of the reason why so few managers are interested is that since 1992 and the formation of the Premier League, only 6 clubs have won the cup. and of these, only 2 won it once (Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, man Utd......................Everton and Portsmouth)

 

[Storer68]

The best cup run we ever had resulted in relegation.

err we went bottom of Division 1 on 16 April. On 16 April , we just happened to beat Sheff Wed in the Cup semi final at highbury.

Personally, at the time I couldn't have cared less that we wouldn't play Coventry City twice in 1983-4. WE WERE IN THE CUP FINAL!

Biggest game of the season.

The ONLY game shown live on british televison in the entire season

 

[BLOCK F]

Absolutely spot-on. I've mentioned it before but in the 1976-77 promotion season I went to nearly all (about 40) of the league games. Most of them I've completely forgotten about. However the three games I'll never forget are the three League Cup games against WBA, Ipswich and Derby. The memory of those three games still cheer me up even today.

They also were good for the team. Firstly it allowed us to keep momentum going. Secondly it confirmed what we'd all thought that this team were GOOD. The confidence gained from playing and beating 'premiership' oppositon was immense. There was NO downside, there was NO distraction from the League campaign, and when we lost the replay to Derby there was a genuine sadness that the ride had ended and a real desire to make sure that soon we'd be playing the likes of Derby as equals and not as plucky underdogs. Plus we'd made the football world sit up and take notice, including some in Sussex who joined the Albion bandwaggon on the back of our Cup success.

So all this "lets concentrate on the league" and "I'd rather get three points against Ragarse Rovers" is BOLLOCKS total BOLLOCKS. It's for LOSERS. A good cup campaign does not automatically mean a drop-off in the league.

I agree!I remember those League Cup games and the fantastic atmosphere under the lights against Derby.I may be a simpleton,but I just don't agree with Gus's approach to the F.A.Cup.I can just about go along with him on the 'minor' competitions,but not with this one.
The whole thing has backfired and as well as disrupting the rhythm of the team,he has unnecessarily pissed off a lot of fans and also has landed us with extra games that he didn't want!!
I know we are top of the league,but who is to say we wouldn't be in an even better position if we had ....let me be diplomatic ....approached these games rather differently.

 

[Icy Gull]

Most of the Cup games that stand out to me even today, putting aside the Cup Final year, were achieved as a 3rd division club.

Ipswich- won, Nottingham Forest lost, Derby lost after a replay, West Bromwich Albion -won. These games insipred the team to believe that they could mix with the best and were part of the build up to our promotion seasons

Gus has basically decreed that we won't be having days like those again, I think he's wrong to be so single minded about the league, it would do the players good to go into the game against Pompey (big assumption that we win the game before that) knowing that the outcome is not massively important and would be a nice distration from the pressures of trying to stay top of the league. Yes we may get injuries but we may get them anyway in a league game.

Be nice if Gus could even tip a nod to what the fans might want....