[Misc] Advice or opinion on a furlough dilemma.

[PeterOut]

The only issue is the legal one. Practically it makes total sense to do the work and save your job.

The legal considerations seem to me to be between the Govt and the employer, not the Govt and the employee.

I appreciate that you have far more understanding of this situation than me - I took my info from https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-furlough-scheme-job-protection

I also appreciate that if the employer breaks the rules, is caught out doing so, and has to pay the money back to the Govt then the company may still fold.

In which case, it still seems like a no-brainer to me - work a little and give the chance for the company to keep going, vs work a little and risk the company not receiving the 80% funding (which will likely have the same end-result as not doing the 4-6hrs requested).

I really appreciate that we are into very murky waters morally, but I was trying to address the matter simply from the OPs son-in-law's perspective.

Anyway, just sharing an opinion, which is what the OP requested, not trying to state an absolute right or wrong here.

 

[WATFORD zero]

this is the correct answer.

If you have at least 6 people in every function, all able to cover one another and need them each to do 4-6 hrs, then furloughing 5 and keeping one, in each function, full time on rota is indeed, the correct answer.

If, like many thousands of companies, you don't have these sort of numbers, getting 2 hours of payroll per month, two hours of chasing invoices a week, and a daily 10 minute security check, across 6 staff in total, two of whom are part time, may prove a little more problematic.

 

[LlcoolJ]

The legal considerations seem to me to be between the Govt and the employer, not the Govt and the employee.

I appreciate that you have far more understanding of this situation than me - I took my info from https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-furlough-scheme-job-protection

I also appreciate that if the employer breaks the rules, is caught out doing so, and has to pay the money back to the Govt then the company may still fold.

In which case, it still seems like a no-brainer to me - work a little and give the chance for the company to keep going, vs work a little and risk the company not receiving the 80% funding (which will likely have the same end-result as not doing the 4-6hrs requested).

I really appreciate that we are into very murky waters morally, but I was trying to address the matter simply from the OPs son-in-law's perspective.

Anyway, just sharing an opinion, which is what the OP requested, not trying to state an absolute right or wrong here.

Yeah I was agreeing, just pointing out that (as you say) the waters are murky as to who will get screwed if the rules have been broken once the dust settles.

I've PM'd the OP anyway as I don't want to go into more detail on here.

 

[Bry Nylon]

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Why not drop everyone down to 1 day a week and just pay them for that ?

How do people survive on 4 paid days per month?

 

[Springal]

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How do people survive on 4 paid days per month?

Well if it’s only a month or 2, better than 0 paid days per month?

 

[WilburySeagull]

These are very murky waters. I can fully appreciate tbe difficult issues legally and morally here and I dont criticise any of the posts at all. It is difficult to comment without knowing how big the co. is or what it does. Clearly if it were feasible the best option would be to keep 1 or 2 working and forlogh the rest.

One aspect does seem to be missing. If this happens on a large scale its the taxpayer who picks up the tab cause thats where the money comes from: even if borrowed for now payback time will come.

 

[maresfield seagull]

Jumping on the bandwagon here
Does anybody know what can actually be claimed for ?
I know the monthly limit is £2500 weekly £577
Is it just contracted hours ?
Or as I thought Martin Lewis mentioned
Overtime as well if it’s usual practice to work those hours regularly

 

[LlcoolJ]

Jumping on the bandwagon here
Does anybody know what can actually be claimed for ?
I know the monthly limit is £2500 weekly £577
Is it just contracted hours ?
Or as I thought Martin Lewis mentioned
Overtime as well if it’s usual practice to work those hours regularly

Have to wade through this unfortunately and see which rules apply.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-f...s-job-retention-scheme#how-much-you-can-claim

 

[Blue3]

I would defiantly be going in on a voluntary basis anything to keep companies afloat when this is all over we will be scrabbling for jobs so those that are prepaired to go the extra mile now hopefully will reap the rewards

 

[Blue3]

How many sole traders will be claiming 80% of the previous years income while still working loads I would think

The Government will not be checking now or in the future it has not the money time or resources they are simply trying to keep UK PLC from going out of buissness.

Some Far East countries will be coming out of lockdown three or more months ahead of us and will be picking orders that were once filled by the UK once that happens and quality and price meet expectations that work may never return

 

[LlcoolJ]

How many sole traders will be claiming 80% of the previous years income while still working loads I would think

The Government will not be checking now or in the future it has not the money time or resources they are simply trying to keep UK PLC from going out of buissness.

Some Far East countries will be coming out of lockdown three or more months ahead of us and will be picking orders that were once filled by the UK once that happens and quality and price meet expectations that work may never return

Self employed people are allowed to continue working while claiming the compensation. Different rules (not that I agree with them).

Plus I wouldn't be so flippant about what will happen once this is over.

I guess you haven't dealt with HMRC very much.

And I apologise if I'm coming across as a dick. It's not intentional, just trying to point out facts.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Jumping on the bandwagon here
Does anybody know what can actually be claimed for ?
I know the monthly limit is £2500 weekly £577
Is it just contracted hours ?
Or as I thought Martin Lewis mentioned
Overtime as well if it’s usual practice to work those hours regularly

They take the February figure for your overtime.

Of course, overtime cannot take the total over the £2500 limit.

 

[Blue3]

Self employed people are allowed to continue working while claiming the compensation. Different rules (not that I agree with them).

Plus I wouldn't be so flippant about what will happen once this is over.

I guess you haven't dealt with HMRC very much.

And I apologise if I'm coming across as a dick. It's not intentional, just trying to point out facts.

No offence taken it’s all about opinions the truth is no one really knows time will tell peace and love

 

[maresfield seagull]

They take the February figure for your overtime.

Of course, overtime cannot take the total over the £2500 limit.

Yes I appreciate that
So would I be correct in thinking that ,as an example
Basic contracted hours are 7.5 per day , plus regularly worked 2 hrs at overtime per day
That is the figure that should be used as a base , to then deduct the 20% from
Obviously this can’t exceed the weekly £577 as that is the top end figure
How does the tax / NI work in this situation?

 

[LlcoolJ]

Yes I appreciate that
So would I be correct in thinking that ,as an example
Basic contracted hours are 7.5 per day , plus regularly worked 2 hrs at overtime per day
That is the figure that should be used as a base , to then deduct the 20% from
Obviously this can’t exceed the weekly £577 as that is the top end figure
How does the tax / NI work in this situation?

Tax and NI will work in exactly the same way. Whatever you pay you will pay tax and NI just like normal wages.

Reclaiming it will be a totally separate mechanism.

Although as it doesn't actually exist yet, this is still conjecture. Just what they've told us so far.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Tax and NI will work in exactly the same way. Whatever you pay you will pay tax and NI just like normal wages.

Reclaiming it will be a totally separate mechanism.

Although as it doesn't actually exist yet, this is still conjecture. Just what they've told us so far.

But the gist is all the majority of us need as we won't have to deal with all the detailed shit. I've never understood all this accountancy malarkey, as long as it's there give or take a few quid

 

[LlcoolJ]

But the gist is all the majority of us need as we won't have to deal with all the detailed shit. I've never understood all this accountancy malarkey, as long as it's there give or take a few quid

I don't understand mate.

 

[WilburySeagull]

As I understand it its the company claimong the 80% then paying you (assuming you are an employee). Any repayment is between the company and govt. Tax and NI work normally.

The self employed are slightly different. I think the aim there is to keep sole traders and the like goig so I imagine govt might actually like them to work anyway.

Another group still doesnt know how it works for them. My daughter is a supply teacher and they dont fit either catagory. She is fortunate in having got some internet based teaching for now but after that who knows?

Keep safe all and Happy Easter

 

[LlcoolJ]

As I understand it its the company claimong the 80% then paying you (assuming you are an employee). Any repayment is between the company and govt. Tax and NI work normally.

The self employed are slightly different. I think the aim there is to keep sole traders and the like goig so I imagine govt might actually like them to work anyway.

Another group still doesnt know how it works for them. My daughter is a supply teacher and they dont fit either catagory. She is fortunate in having got some internet based teaching for now but after that who knows?

Keep safe all and Happy Easter

The best summary so far is here. I've posted it on the self employed thread but I strongly advise everyone to watch it. Just so you understand what is actually happening.



https://youtu.be/NDhMaIMAx3g

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not Furlough, but the self employment scheme 2nd payment, which I haven't seen anything about on here.

The first payment was to cover the months March, April and May. In order to get a second payment your business has to be adversely effected on or after 14th July. What about the 6 weeks between the first payment (end of May) and the qualifying period for the new one 14th July ?

Given the lifting of Lockdown restrictions between June 1st and July 14th and associated 'Get back to work' encouragement from HMG, I would imagine a significant proportion of self-employed will be starting work between those two dates and therefor ineligible for any payment from June 1st to July 14th.

Now call me an old cynic, but is this correct ? (Guessing a few previous posters on this thread would have a view ? [MENTION=14669]LlcoolJ[/MENTION] )