[News] Exploding pagers across Lebanon

Psychobilly freakout · 2024-09-18T13:35:49+0100

aolstudios said:
That is utter, utter Icke level bullshit

Yeah alright...

USA & Egypt warned them, it is not such a great leap....

You know what, sometimes governments play the people.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/13/politics/us-intelligence-warnings-potential-gaza-clash-days-before-attack/index.html

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says

But Israel's PM describes any claim it received a specific warning as "totally fake news".

www.bbc.co.uk

Easy 10 · 2024-09-18T13:36:41+0100

Seagull58 said:
It's not at all indiscriminate. It precisely targeted the Hamas operatives that use pagers distributed by their leadership. Nobody else uses those pagers.

Good luck if you just happened to be standing close to one the Hezbollah (not Hamas) operatives when his pager was detonated then.

Seagull58 · 2024-09-18T13:39:39+0100

Psychobilly freakout said:
Some would argue, they are acting in a preventative measure as Israel has been practically been given a green light to do as it wishes where it wishes by NATO by not being strong enough or scared of losing investment, business and American/Jewish votes in countries like the USA.
Israel has displaced and killed thousands, I think it is a legitimate concern from Lebanon that Israel is striking while the iron is hot, and will turn their attention to them, 200,000 people have been displaced since the start of this thing on the Lebanon border with Israel.

Is 43000 dead an acceptable response to the Hamas atrocity that started this ?

I cannot understand how firing hundreds of rockets into Israel daily, indiscriminately hitting civilian infrastructure, can be a preventative measure. Have I misunderstood your point?

Seagull58 · 2024-09-18T13:41:19+0100

Easy 10 said:
There's obviously wrongdoing ALL sides. Hamas, Hezbollah and Israel are all guilty of conducting indiscriminate attacks - I thought that pretty much went without saying, but clearly not.

This thread is specifically discussing the Israeli pager attack and the nature of it. But thanks for the sarky response, champ.

The pager attack is not an indiscriminate attack though. It is anything but.

Seagull58 · 2024-09-18T13:44:58+0100

beorhthelm said:
if Hezbollah attacks a barracks or police station in Israel, is that ok then and not terrorism, because its targetted?

maybe i'm the odd one, in my eyes, deliberatly maiming targets just isn't how you go about immobilising an adversary.

How would you go about it?

chip · 2024-09-18T13:45:19+0100

Wardy's twin said:
Let's say we don't live a comfortable and safe Britain, let's say we live in the Britain of my parents at war with Germany. I wonder how many people on here would have stood up and protested against the bombing and killing of civilians in Germany , Hamburg & Dresden or maybe the atom bombs .

The Quakers did, and got the Nobel Peace Prize for it. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1947/ceremony-speech/

Thunder Bolt · 2024-09-18T13:48:07+0100

chip said:
The Quakers did, and got the Nobel Peace Prize for it. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1947/ceremony-speech/

Two years after the war finished. Many of them were imprisoned during it.

Wardy's twin · 2024-09-18T13:49:07+0100

Seagull58 said:
You can't be sure that it will achieve nothing useful. There are examples in history of terrorist organisations renouncing violence and embracing peaceful, political means, and examples of terrorist organisations pretty much ceasing to exist. The IRA as the former and the Tamil Tigers as the latter. Also, Frelimo, Swapo, Sandanista etc. etc.

It was never the objective of the IRA to wipe out the protestants or the English and there in lies the major difference and that is pretty much true of the groups you mention above. In the case of the IRA it was clear that the conflict was going nowhere, support was waning (especially as economic conditions improved) and rational people (yes i did say that) decided that peace might be a better option .

Until its clear that demands for the destruction of Israel are stopped then the Netanyahu's position seems justified to the current majority of Israelis and with that comes the continued aggressiveness.

chip · 2024-09-18T13:49:36+0100

Thunder Bolt said:
Two years after the war finished. Many of them were imprisoned during it.

Yes, I alo have a recollection that the Chief Nurse was a Quaker and camapigned for civilian relief in Germany.

Psychobilly freakout · 2024-09-18T13:49:55+0100

Seagull58 said:
I cannot understand how firing hundreds of rockets into Israel daily, indiscriminately hitting civilian infrastructure, can be a preventative measure. Have I misunderstood your point?

Forgive me if I have this wrong.
1: As I understand it Israel and Lebanon have been at odds for decades.
2: There have been long standing border issues with Israeli settlers ousting locals, more than 200,000 displaced.
3: They are obviously a terrorist group involved and have been firing rockets in support of the Palestinian brothers as they see them ever since the start of the this whole thing.
4: I think (something I should not do) they are firing rockets in support and as a measure for them to say, Israel we will not let you take anymore of our land, and you will not do to us what Israel have done to the Palestinians by murdering and displacing thousands.

For every action there is a reaction.

rippleman · 2024-09-18T13:50:33+0100

Seagull58 said:
Yes, of course, as we've seen in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique, Nicaragua etc., but, imo, this was most definitely not a terrorist attack. It was a targeted operation to disrupt and immobilise Hezbollah's organisational structure. It is not comparable to the rockets Hezbollah fires indiscriminately into Israel every day.

Then they cocked it up. Two children dead and many others injured. Unless you are happy to accept another couple of dead children as "collateral damage" to go along with the thousands already killed, maimed, injured and displaced by the extreme rightwing government of the State of Israel?

Seagull58 · 2024-09-18T13:52:05+0100

pocketseagull said:
Do you think it would be acceptable for IDF to be targeted the same way with 1000s of civilians injured and children killed in Tel Aviv?

Where have 1000s of civilians been injured in this attack? What we know about it is that nearly 3000 pagers distributed and used by Hezbollah for their organisational communications have been blown up, with around 2,800 total casualties.

Sussax · 2024-09-18T13:52:06+0100

And round and round we go.

Superphil · 2024-09-18T13:53:36+0100

de la zouch said:
No one is celebrating a child’s death
Hezbollah has fired 8000 rockets into Israel in the last year including one that killed many children playing football (where were your tears then) so they are at war. This war has the lowest rate of civilian deaths of any modern war.

How many civilian deaths in Gaza?

aolstudios · 2024-09-18T13:56:53+0100

beorhthelm said:
if Hezbollah attacks a barracks or police station in Israel, is that ok then and not terrorism, because its targetted?

maybe i'm the odd one, in my eyes, deliberatly maiming targets just isn't how you go about immobilising an adversary.

What on earth do you think we did to the Germans in ww2? Sang them lullabies?

aolstudios · 2024-09-18T13:58:54+0100

chip said:
The Quakers did, and got the Nobel Peace Prize for it. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1947/ceremony-speech/

D'you think Hitler would've surrendered to the Quakers?

Wardy's twin · 2024-09-18T13:59:10+0100

chip said:
The Quakers did, and got the Nobel Peace Prize for it. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1947/ceremony-speech/

I didn't know that but weren't the Quakers also conscientious objectors so clearly stood up against any violence /war rather than just bombing of civilians.

I wonder how many on here are conscientious objectors and indeed what would have happened had the majority of the population had been Quakers in 1939.

Psychobilly freakout · 2024-09-18T13:59:44+0100

Seagull58 said:
Where have 1000s of civilians been injured in this attack? What we know about it is that nearly 3000 pagers distributed and used by Hezbollah for their organisational communications have been blown up, with around 2,800 total casualties.

you have not answered my previous question, do you think 430000 dead, thousands maimed and displaced is an acceptable response to the original atrocity by Hamas ?

beorhthelm · 2024-09-18T14:02:03+0100

aolstudios said:
What on earth do you think we did to the Germans in ww2? Sang them lullabies?

while following some rules of war accepted at the time, we did a lot of things we dont find acceptable today. maybe at least try to address the question without resorting to whataboutery.

pocketseagull · 2024-09-18T14:03:16+0100

Seagull58 said:
Where have 1000s of civilians been injured in this attack? What we know about it is that nearly 3000 pagers distributed and used by Hezbollah for their organisational communications have been blown up, with around 2,800 total casualties.

My error, the amount of civilian injuries is unknown, although we do know for certain two children were killed.

Do you think it an acceptable tactic to be used against the IDF in Tel Aviv?

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[News] Exploding pagers across Lebanon

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