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[News] Exploding pagers across Lebanon



Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
6,565
You’ve no information on the wider distribution of the pagers beyond the core intended targets. It’s obvious from the reports coming in that the victims didn’t belong to one demographic. And even if they had done, think of the ‘collateral damage’ depending on where the device was stored, or who happened to be sitting next to the owner on a bus or in the market. It’s a a truly dreadful tactic.
What is the information that you have and the rest of us don't?
 






Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,050
It’s a long term tactic and very effective. Previously, their commanders were taken out from their phone GPS. So they switched to pagers. Now they can’t use them.

The collateral damage to this is innocent bystanders but a terrorist operation has been shut down.

This is reckless and possibly murder of bystanders by the IDF. But they might have shut down an entire terrorism modus operandi.

All of this is why this cannot be binary or partisan.
I agree completely with your last sentence but question that in bold.

If it were the case that taking out several thousand pagers has shut down ‘an entire mo’, there might be a military justification to this attack but I do have doubt they have shut down anything. In fact this could invoke a response from Iran or Yemen while Hezbollah regroup and re-equip. Just this week, Yemen launched a new type of long range missile into the heart of Israel that evaded the Iron dome and oil has already leaked into the waters of the Red Sea from an attacked oil tanker.

Because Israel is not fighting just Hamas in Gaza nor even a state army located in another geographical area but fighting non-state terrorist entities who share a similar ideology to brethren groups spread throughout the ME and Yemen - an all out war with Hezbollah could be devastating for the entire region. Hezbollah are a military strength receiving most of its equipment, training and funding from Iran and Syria and are likely the most heavily armed non-state group in the world.

When all sides to a conflict have a history of showing scant regard for civilian casualties in pursuit of their military objectives, it leaves little hope for civilian welfare in the event of escalation.

There are no winners in this conflict, just losers.

There’s nothing to celebrate here imo.

(EDIT - I should add only my first sentence and next paragraph was really directed at you/your post not the rest)
 
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Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,050
No one is celebrating a child’s death
Hezbollah has fired 8000 rockets into Israel in the last year including one that killed many children playing football (where were your tears then) so they are at war. This war has the lowest rate of civilian deaths of any modern war.
The tragic and very sad football incident wasn’t in ‘Israel’ any more than Gaza, East Jerusalem or the West Bank is in ‘Israel’ - it was in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights. At least apprise yourself of the facts.

As for the sentence in bold, I’m speechless (unless you were just referring to Israeli citizens)
 
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aftershavedave

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
6,984
as 10cc say, not in hove
The tragic and very sad football incident wasn’t in ‘Israel’ - it was in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights. At least apprise yourself of the facts.

As for the sentence in bold, I’m speechless (unless you were just referring to Israeli citizens)
I have taken you off ignore to suggest that you are arguing with an Israeli plant. Just stop
 




chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,507
While sharing the amazement at the sheer chutzpah of the tactics used, I really wish Israel would consider likely collateral damage a little more. In all of their many conflicts, frankly.

They may have taken out some enemy operatives, but there’s a lot of innocent people who don’t deserve what’s happened out there tonight. It doesn’t feel like anyone’s winning to me.
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,301
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Oh well done Israel, more escalation towards blowing the whole world up. f*** sake

God Britain has got so much to answer for. "Need to help the Jews find a Homeland after their persecution in Europe, where shall we put it? Anywhere in the world? Anywhere. OK, how about this densely populated part of the middle east, the holy land for three major religions? Excellent idea, that won't possibly go wrong. Back to mine for Pimms?"
 


heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,756
This is a remarkable story, isn't it?

The planning and sophistication needed to infiltrate a supply chain and implant thousands of pagers, that remain completely operational, with high-grade explosives, such that they can be made to all go BANG! at some point in the future.

That's quite something.

I can't help but admire the audacity of the Israeli military... "We will get you, you can't hide from us"
 




heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,756
Oh well done Israel, more escalation towards blowing the whole world up. f*** sake

God Britain has got so much to answer for. "Need to help the Jews find a Homeland after their persecution in Europe, where shall we put it? Anywhere in the world? Anywhere. OK, how about this densely populated part of the middle east, the holy land for three major religions? Excellent idea, that won't possibly go wrong. Back to mine for Pimms?"
Dick, I assume that's your real name... blocked
 








Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,050
I have taken you off ignore to suggest that you are arguing with an Israeli plant. Just stop
I’ve taken you off ignore to answer you.

If I feel like it, I will fact check whoever posts bollix and presents them as facts on this forum so don’t tell me to stop.

As for Israeli ‘plants’ on NSC - really?
 


crookie

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2013
3,353
Back in Sussex
Let's be honest, every man and his dog has a smartphone these days, including everyone who arrives here in a sinking dinghy. Who the fu*k uses a pager in this day and age ? I can guarantee noone on this board has ever seen one in the last 20 years. Used by a terrorist organisation to avoid phone hacking clearly. Horrible collateral damage it sounds like, but a hell of a lot more sophisticated and targeted than the blanket bombing of Gaza. From an operational and psychological angle, hugely impressive.

Just to state, not a fan of Netanyahu, who has an incredible amount of blood on his hands, and is only prolonging this conflict to keep his arse out of jail
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,301
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Dick, I assume that's your real name... blocked
Or instead of abuse, you could engage with the point. An Israeli homeland could have been anywhere in the world. Jews live everywhere in the world, still countless more outside Israel than in it. Almost anywhere else would have removed one of the biggest impediments to world peace that we have today.
 






de la zouch

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2007
532
You’ve no information on the wider distribution of the pagers beyond the core intended targets. It’s obvious from the reports coming in that the victims didn’t belong to one demographic. And even if they had done, think of the ‘collateral damage’ depending on where the device was stored, or who happened to be sitting next to the owner on a bus or in the market. It’s a a truly dreadful tactic.
Read today’s BBC report even they talk clearly about a highly targeted attack, with only one known civilian death.
Question, how is Israel meant to defend itself?
 




dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
54,724
Burgess Hill
It absolutely is as it’s so indiscriminate. Some of the pagers are doubtless used by Hezbollah but from the reports so far, many were in the possession of innocent civilians, business people and children. Terrorism has many definitions but spreading fear and terror, and a lack of concern over innocent bystanders killed or injured, are key parts of most accepted definitions.
Yep. Pagers still used widely in hospital settings, purchased by parents for their kids who they don’t want to have smartphones etc etc :down:
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,655
Faversham
Collective punishment always cowardly. But on a less serious not is this 1991 who uses pagers still?!
They moved to pagers because they thought they would be more secure (from Israeli hacking) than mobile phones. Apparently.
 




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