BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,933
Its certainly not going to win any votes is it?
Spend a fortune, increase the cruelty and illegally send people in need of help to Rwanda, that's the vote winner.
Its like a real life dystopia nightmare.
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[Politics] The Labour Government
- Thread starter Super Steve Earle
- Start date
Spend a fortune, increase the cruelty and illegally send people in need of help to Rwanda, that's the vote winner.
Its like a real life dystopia nightmare.
Nicks
Well-known member
These people in need of help who enter this country illegally are in need of help
I didn't realise there was a war raging in France ?
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,933
These people in need of help who enter this country illegally are in need of help
I didn't realise there was a war raging in France ?
Great question and I would fully suggest doing some research into the answers to all it's parts. The answers will be illuminating and liberating.
Even better is to meet some asylum seekers and listen to their stories, it is difficult to stay hard hearted after some real life interactions.
Good luck with it.
I'll give you a start, it is not illegal to claim asylum in another country and nor is it necessary to claim asylum in the first safe country you come to.
And yes, the majority are looking for help.
Yep, I reckon Starmer should stop making the UK Prime Minister an international statesman again instead of an international joke (coz, y'know, we might get some help then) or writing the King's Speech (which I suspect will contain a plan to improve the NHS) and just get himself down to a beach in Kent with a sharp stick and a one way ticket to Rwanda.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,933
Have you been reading the reform manifesto again?
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,427
God luck with that.
I really don't know how you go about explaining anything even remotely complicated to a person with an attention span of three words. Believe me, I've tried
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,933
You would think that when the answers people are fed are confusing, illogical and anger inducing they would consider that they may be incorrect.God luck with that.
I really don't know how you go about explaining anything even remotely complicated to a person with an attention span of three words. Believe me, I've tried
I have no intention of explaining anything (I feel like I have done that enough about this subject), i was just suggest they learn more about the subject, so it all makes more sense.
Nicks
Well-known member
It is Illegal to enter this country without a valid passport.
We will start there shall we ?
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,933
A complex place to start after the Tories Rwanda debacle and its dodgy changing of the laws. But go for it.
To be honest, there is no point in 'us' starting anywhere, I have a decent understanding of the UN refugee convention. I am going on your previous posts and apparent anger that asylum seekers don't stay in France and assuming you don't.
Like I say, look into it, it will make a lot more sense.
Decent places to start:
The truth about asylum
You can rely on our facts and figures to get the true picture about the situation—and help spread the truth about asylum.
www.refugeecouncil.org.uk
Who is a refugee, a migrant or an asylum seeker?
Hint: they are all people on the move, and more than just a label.
www.amnesty.org
The 1951 Refugee Convention | UNHCR Australia
The 1951 Refugee Convention and its 1967 Protocol are the key documents that form the basis of UNHCR’s work. Learn more about them and view the original text.
www.unhcr.org
The King's Speech 2024 - 105 pages of glorious detail about the government's plan of action.
Uh_huh_him
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2011
- 11,799
Immigration legal or not is undeniably a subject which needs greater discussion and understanding.
The right tend to bang on about the cost in benefits and how we could afford better services if we stopped immigration completely.
The left like to remind people that without immigration our economy would shrink and services would not be able to be run.
Both arguments are based in truth, but it always gets a bit tribal.
I have no idea of the real net impact of immigration on the treasury, but history tells me that if there were any savings, it wouldn't go towards running better services.
I believe the annual average of illegal "small boat" immigrants is something like 25,000 people of an overall figure of 650,000 people.
The actual impact (positive or negative) of small boat is minimal, and yet we have had it rammed down our throats relentlessly.
Hopefully we can start moving away from this type of polarized debates and start having grown up policies on the big issues affecting us.
The right tend to bang on about the cost in benefits and how we could afford better services if we stopped immigration completely.
The left like to remind people that without immigration our economy would shrink and services would not be able to be run.
Both arguments are based in truth, but it always gets a bit tribal.
I have no idea of the real net impact of immigration on the treasury, but history tells me that if there were any savings, it wouldn't go towards running better services.
I believe the annual average of illegal "small boat" immigrants is something like 25,000 people of an overall figure of 650,000 people.
The actual impact (positive or negative) of small boat is minimal, and yet we have had it rammed down our throats relentlessly.
Hopefully we can start moving away from this type of polarized debates and start having grown up policies on the big issues affecting us.
Nicks
Well-known member
If it's legal migration then I have no problem with it as it enriches our country and fills the various job roles.
But flip the coin and it's costing us millions which could be better spent on hospitals, affordable housing , getting the homeless off the streets ( whilst illegal immigrants get fed and watered and free treatment)
But flip the coin and it's costing us millions which could be better spent on hospitals, affordable housing , getting the homeless off the streets ( whilst illegal immigrants get fed and watered and free treatment)
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
When do refugees or asylum seekers find time to get a passport and visa? Think about the many we abandoned in Afghanistan by not being prepared to pull out? All the interpreters etc who helped the armed forces?
Leave them to be killed by the Taliban?
When their asylum claim is processed, they can start working and contributing to the country, or if it is rejected, they get deported.
The big problem of the last five years is that hardly any claims were actually processed, so the problem was 'allowed' to grow by the then politicians in charge.
I saw the figures today and there are 40 times (40x) the number of legal immigrants as there are illegal. The legal ones meet the criteria created by the last government.
But literally no one, especially not Labour, is saying we should just accept anyone.
The King's Speech sets out the ways they're going to deal with it. Police to use counter terror powers against smuggling gangs and processing to be made fit for purpose so that illegal migrants can be deported quicker. They're not standing with their fingers in their ears singing la la la.
The grey area is asylum as I suspect we both know. If your asylum claim is accepted you are legal and can go ahead and work and enrich the country. If it's not, you're deported. The Reform position appears to be to not accept any asylum claim, while the humane thing to do is give people a roof and some basic food and medicine while the claim is assessed.
I don't know a single Labour voter who wants uncontrolled migration, I certainly don't, but I do expect my government to act like human beings.
Wait, the refugees are French? First I've hard of that.These people in need of help who enter this country illegally are in need of help
I didn't realise there was a war raging in France ?
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
As with any illegal activity it requires tax payers money; police force, other agencies, crown prosecution, judiciary etc.
Trouble with the media they have portrayed the people arriving by boats as a disproportionate representation of what they cost the treasury in comparison to many other illegal activities such as tax evasion for example.
Absolutely our money should be spent on meaningful things, but it should also be able to handle the appropriate processing of people arriving on our shores illegally in a humane way.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The agencies involved are the Home Office & Border Force. The Crown Prosecution Service doesn’t handle asylum claims, as Border Force have their own lawyers.
The Refugee Council use Human Rights lawyers if they feel deportation can be appealed.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 532
Increasing minimum wage for all ages would be a mistake.
I’ve always employed 15 and 16 year olds in my shops alongside older staff. I rarely if ever get rid of anyone young based on ability (lack of) - I have often let younger staff go based on attitude!
I always say whatever your level of ability I will find something for you to do. They all develop at different rates and very often are much better in their second season, when their money goes up again.
Ilike to think that over the last 12 years many if not most have left us not just as competent shop staff but aware of what is expected of them as an employee and what to expect from future employers.
I’ve currently got 4 second season 16yo’s working on £9 per hour and 3 relatively new starters who started on £6.50 for a two week trial and are now on £7.50 **minimum wage for 16yo’s is £6.40**
Doing their side of the rota (back up staff/second servers) is a headache every week- I start by asking them all their availability and then work the rota to fit them .. they have family commitments/holidays , dance classes football practice - weekends off with absent parents etc etc … prom week is a nightmare every year!!
The bakery staff and senior shop staff are on set shifts no rotas required.
As the Conservatives put minimum wage up by 9% each of the last two years we can safely say Labour will increase it to roughly £12.50 for adults.
If that is to include 16yo’s I’m afraid I won’t be employing any 16yo’s again.
I’ve always employed 15 and 16 year olds in my shops alongside older staff. I rarely if ever get rid of anyone young based on ability (lack of) - I have often let younger staff go based on attitude!
I always say whatever your level of ability I will find something for you to do. They all develop at different rates and very often are much better in their second season, when their money goes up again.
Ilike to think that over the last 12 years many if not most have left us not just as competent shop staff but aware of what is expected of them as an employee and what to expect from future employers.
I’ve currently got 4 second season 16yo’s working on £9 per hour and 3 relatively new starters who started on £6.50 for a two week trial and are now on £7.50 **minimum wage for 16yo’s is £6.40**
Doing their side of the rota (back up staff/second servers) is a headache every week- I start by asking them all their availability and then work the rota to fit them .. they have family commitments/holidays , dance classes football practice - weekends off with absent parents etc etc … prom week is a nightmare every year!!
The bakery staff and senior shop staff are on set shifts no rotas required.
As the Conservatives put minimum wage up by 9% each of the last two years we can safely say Labour will increase it to roughly £12.50 for adults.
If that is to include 16yo’s I’m afraid I won’t be employing any 16yo’s again.