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[Football] To all the Southgate haters / wrong again and again and again **SOUTHGATE NOW RESIGNED**



H

Half Time Pies

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2003
1,498
Brighton
All the comparison with English players and teams of the past is ignoring the fact that where we are now is the culmination of a long term plan to improve the quality of English football and the fortunes of the England football team. We first had the Elite Player Performance Plan introduced in 2011 that overhauled the Premier League academy system and then a couple of years later the FA DNA blueprint which aimed to advance the technical and tactical characteristics of the national team. There has been huge investment in the facilities and coaching throughout club and national team set up's and we are now seeing the benefits of this.

In the past, a part from the odd exception, we had less technically able players and a certain way of playing which was stuck in the past. Things are different now and Gareth Southgate has a squad of players that have the attributes to actually compete in major tournaments.

I remember when Arsenal played Barcelona years ago and Pep Guardiola was asked what he thought about Jack Wilshire at a time when there was a lot of media hype in England about him and his technical ability. Pep said something along the lines of 'he's OK but I've got a load of players as technically gifted as him in the Barcelona reserves'. At the time we so far behind the likes of Spain it was a joke, now the La Liga player of the year is English.
 




Flounce

Flounce

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
3,456
Randy McNob said:
so whats your point then ? You don't like England whether achieve or underacheive
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My point is that I think all three I mentioned have underachieved given the quality of players available. Is it that hard to understand?

I bloody loved the first half last night….and the winning goal as I had been screaming at the tv to get Kane off and bring either Watkins or Toney on because in the second half Kane was a passenger.

Play like we did in the first half on Sunday and lose and I will not be moaning :shrug:

If Southgate goes all defensive and negative and we lose or win on pens having played shite all game I will still probably moan :smile:

We have arguably the best squad in the Euros.
 
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M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,453
Fiveways
hart's shirt said:
Tonight was a much better performance and a combination of a very generous penalty with clinical clutch finishing was the difference.

But England have played well once in six games, so forgive me for being slightly reticent about gushing praise for now.

Whilst reaching a Final from a kinder side of the draw is great, let's not forget the absolute dreck that was served up previously.

As posted on the match thread, if they can beat the standout team in the tournament, then they''ll be worthy winners.

But with 4-5 poor performances out of 6, it's more likely that tonight's showing was the outlier rather than the norm.

Relying on Spain to have an off-day isn't going to be enough. They'll still need both luck and a better performance than tonight.
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I rate Southgate far more highly than you, but think your comments throughout have been fair and not hyperbolic.
He's clearly not a master tactician, but that's about the last thing you want for a national team -- for the simple reason that you don't have the time to implement and work on that style. What you want is someone that sorts out the defence so that you're difficult to score against, is good at set pieces at both ends, and creates an environment such that penalties work. Southgate has been pretty good at all of that, and I don't think his changes/substitutions have been as bad as is commonly conceived. As @Skaville states, his greatest quality is the togetherness and calm that he's generated with the squad.
Even you might concede that his record is damn good. Qualified for four tournaments with ease. One QF where they were knocked out by the best team in the WC. One SF. Two finals, with the potential to win one of them (Spain are favourites for me).
 


Justice

Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
20,090
Born In Shoreham
Randy McNob said:
Criticised for sticking with Pickford - proved em wrong
Criticised for picking shaw - proved em wrong
criticised for his subs, brings on Palmer and watkins who assist and score the winner. previously Brought TAA and Toney on to take pens who both converted (v SwizzZZ)
He stuck with Kane and Bellingham despite all the 'experts' saying they should be subbed who both went on to score (v Slovakia)
won 3 knockout matches from losing positions
2 Euro Finals
1 WC Semi
Time to hold up your hands and admit you were wrong about Southgate
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If he started Palmer & Watkins maybe he wouldn’t be so reliant on last gasp goals when he brings the quality on the pitch.
 


Justice

Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
20,090
Born In Shoreham
Machiavelli said:
I rate Southgate far more highly than you, but think your comments throughout have been fair and not hyperbolic.
He's clearly not a master tactician, but that's about the last thing you want for a national team -- for the simple reason that you don't have the time to implement and work on that style. What you want is someone that sorts out the defence so that you're difficult to score against, is good at set pieces at both ends, and creates an environment such that penalties work. Southgate has been pretty good at all of that, and I don't think his changes/substitutions have been as bad as is commonly conceived. As @Skaville states, his greatest quality is the togetherness and calm that he's generated with the squad.
Even you might concede that his record is damn good. Qualified for four tournaments with ease. One QF where they were knocked out by the best team in the WC. One SF. Two finals, with the potential to win one of them (Spain are favourites for me).
Click to expand...
All the players are playing progressive football with their clubs, all of them. I think the opposite the players aren’t flowing naturally under Southgate they all look like they are playing with the handbrake on.
To suggest let’s say Klopp would take an age to get that group of players ticking is bollocks IMO.
 




Right Brain Ronnie

Right Brain Ronnie

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2023
520
North of North
Krafty said:
Gareth Southgate is an incredibly lucky manager. Enough said.
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Yes he is, but I would say he has a structure which clearly the players didn't even believe in, but the more luck we have had the more the players are thinking just maybe he has balanced the risk to reward about right, so we have to respect his decisions. I would like to know what, Watkins, Toney and Palmer in particular think about him, if it's broadcastable.
 


Flounce

Flounce

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
3,456
Right Brain Ronnie said:
Yes he is, but I would say he has a structure which clearly the players didn't even believe in, but the more luck we have had the more the players are thinking just maybe he has balanced the risk to reward about right, so we have to respect his decisions. I would like to know what, Watkins, Toney and Palmer in particular think about him, if it's broadcastable.
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And Dunk
 


Beanstalk

Beanstalk

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2017
2,929
London


I cannot believe some of the negativity towards the England manager on this thread after last night. First major tournament final on foreign soil in the nation's history, and people are still yearning for someone like Pochettino to ride in 😂
 






chaileyjem

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Patron
Jun 27, 2012
14,565
Krafty said:
Gareth Southgate is an incredibly lucky manager. Enough said.
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England get decent draws at tournaments because they are seeded because , under Southgate they tend to win most, if not all their qualifying games . They then get decent draws in the tournament because , under Southgate , they tend to win their groups - others don’t . They then tend to beat the teams in front of them - perhaps because they take penalties seriously , or are fitter or more resilient. He’s also got a fine crop of players but so did Sven, Capello and Hodgson.
You earn your luck.
 














M

martin tyler

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
5,935
Odd thread. We should just enjoy a final and hopefully a euro trophy.
Spain is a tough ask they are the best side so far in terms of the quality of football but on the day anything can happen.

Southgate isn’t no tactical genius - I thank the Swiss myself for playing 3421 - caused us to stumble on it to match them and it suits the players we have so much better and the press for being so critical that it’s helped create a tight togetherness.
But whether he’s lacking in certain areas tactically or not this is another final he’s taken us to. If he is lucky I hope for one more night he’s lucky again
 




herecomesaregular

herecomesaregular

We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Oct 27, 2008
4,550
Still in Brighton
Lots of garbage written about lucky draw, same as Raducanu on her run to the US Open win. You rarely control who's facing you and it's always fine margins what/ifs. And you can only beat who you play against...and Southgate has done. Who cares how we might have done against other teams, other side of the draw not relevant and pointless irrelevance. Yes, we'd play better if he had recruited better assistants to support his weaknesses (tactical in-game changes, as everyone seems to agree). Many times "great" managers have been seen to have had great Assistants. He's done v well despite this.

We can definitely beat the Spanish, everyone has gone overboard about them imo and we have the advantage of the underdog. Spain have a slight off day and we'll take them.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
71,878
Spain have already beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany and France. Would be enough to win most European tournaments. Yet England somehow splutter on :lolol:
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,649
Faversham
Machiavelli said:
I rate Southgate far more highly than you, but think your comments throughout have been fair and not hyperbolic.
He's clearly not a master tactician, but that's about the last thing you want for a national team -- for the simple reason that you don't have the time to implement and work on that style. What you want is someone that sorts out the defence so that you're difficult to score against, is good at set pieces at both ends, and creates an environment such that penalties work. Southgate has been pretty good at all of that, and I don't think his changes/substitutions have been as bad as is commonly conceived. As @Skaville states, his greatest quality is the togetherness and calm that he's generated with the squad.
Even you might concede that his record is damn good. Qualified for four tournaments with ease. One QF where they were knocked out by the best team in the WC. One SF. Two finals, with the potential to win one of them (Spain are favourites for me).
Click to expand...
He said after the game that the players reacted and adapted in real time to changes in Ned's format and strategy without his active intervention, so he can take credit for coaching them to have the confidence and ability to see how to adapt during the game.

(As I look forward to the final I am backfilling my assessment of Southgate with the rose tinted spectacles I found in a desk drawer. Give me a couple of days and I will be waxing lyrical about the golden fulfillment of many years of planning, with Southgate a pivotal lynchpin. By Sunday lunchtime I will be demanding a knighthood for Southgate. And by Sunday late evening I'll no doubt either be demanding his head on a silver platter, or that he be instantly elevated to the Lords where he shall sit as Minister for Footballs).
 




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