[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

Pevenseagull · Jul 2, 2024

schmunk said:
This is well worth a watch, particularly re Clarence Thomas:

(apols if fixtures)

Thanks for the heads up. For some reason I've gotten out of the habit of watching Last Week Tonight and now realise I've got 16 episodes to catch up on.

Might need to get a couple of bottles of gaviscon in before I start on them.

StonehamPark · Jul 2, 2024

Zeberdi said:
I simply disagree with your POV that Trump’s popularity is because the Democrats have made an “utter utter mess of things” that’s all.

My original post was short and simple, and you still don’t get it.

Zeberdi said:
CBA. TBH.

“In the end, he could be arsed”.

— I don’t know why you took my original post personally, there was no need to.

I don’t want to derail any further what is an otherwise fascinating insight into people across the world and politics. Get your last one in here and let’s put it to bed.

seagullsovergrimsby · Jul 2, 2024

Trump doesn't need immunity because if he becomes President all he needs to do is pardon himself.

Seagull58 · Jul 2, 2024

beorhthelm said:
judgment looks like a fudge, a roadbump for current or future cases. you first have to determine if an action was made in official or unoffical capacity. it should be fairly obvious when that applies, those actions in execution of the office. asking a governor to break the law on votes is probably not an official, but a DA and judge have to dance around that for months.

A President attempting to stay in power by fiddling the election is undoubtedly going to be determined as an official act by the christofascists in the judiciary. American democracy is dead unless Biden gets re-elected in November.

pb21 · Jul 2, 2024

Reading bits n bobs suggesting pressure is building on Biden to pull out, his odds of winning decreasing rapidly...

Bodian · Jul 2, 2024

Zeberdi said:
The DoJ, has brought various criminal charges against Trump on evidentiary grounds and his indictments coming from Grand Jury recommendations not the recommendation of Joe Biden - and he was convicted by a trial jury in the Stormy Daniels case

Trump hush-money trial: judge postpones sentencing to September

Judge Juan Merchan agrees to pause proceedings to weigh whether immunity ruling could imperil conviction

www.theguardian.com

Sentencing delayed because some of the evidence may be caught by the ruling.

nicko31 · Jul 2, 2024

pb21 said:
Reading bits n bobs suggesting pressure is building on Biden to pull out, his odds of winning decreasing rapidly...

Biden has achieved a lot but this isn’t the Biden of 2020. Time to step aside

US Seagull · Jul 2, 2024

Bodian said:
Trump hush-money trial: judge postpones sentencing to September

Judge Juan Merchan agrees to pause proceedings to weigh whether immunity ruling could imperil conviction

www.theguardian.com

Sentencing delayed because some of the evidence may be caught by the ruling.

FFS. So he's immune even for things he did before he was president.

f*** SCOTUS

Zeberdi · Jul 2, 2024

nicko31 said:
Biden has achieved a lot but this isn’t the Biden of 2020. Time to step aside

Sadly, I’m quickly losing respect for Biden and his family. I have always thought him an honourable type but this is beginning to look like stubbornness on his part - or is on the part of his family that’s obviously egging him to stay in the race and blaming his aides btw for Biden’s poor performance.

It’s a real conundrum: Is Biden still the best chance of beating Trump in the absence of an alternative?

The polls suggest overwhelmingly that voters think he should step aside but is that the same as saying they would vote for Trump if he did not? That seems to be the crux of it.

“In a recent CBS News-YouGov survey, based on a national sample of 1,130 registered voters, 76% of voters said Biden should not be running for president, with 46% of registered Democratic agreeing he shouldn't.”

The first Democrat in Congress calls for Biden to step aside

Rep. Lloyd Doggett becomes first Democrat in Congress to call for Biden's withdrawal from 2024 race

A House Democratic lawmaker has become the first in the party to publicly call for President Joe Biden to step down as the Democratic nominee for president, citing Biden’s debate performance against Donald Trump failing to “effectively defend his many accomplishments.”

apnews.com

Zeberdi · Jul 2, 2024

US Seagull said:
FFS. So he's immune even for things he did before he was president.

f*** SCOTUS

Bodian said:
Sentencing delayed because some of the evidence may be caught by the ruling.

Yep.

Some of the evidence that was used against him in that case was gathered while he was President - so his lawyers argue. But it’s just a delaying tactic - no-one could argue that falsifying business accounts and paying off one’s fixer is an ‘official act’ of his Presidency.

Bodian · Jul 2, 2024

Zeberdi said:
Yep.

Some of the evidence that was used against him in that case was gathered while he was President - so his lawyers argue. But it’s just a delaying tactic - no-one could argue that falsifying business accounts and paying off one’s fixer is an ‘official act’ of his Presidency.

When you say 'no-one could argue' - don't forget this is Trump we're talking about.

¡Cereal Killer! · Jul 2, 2024

My knowledge on US politics is pretty low, but is there any other political party's in the US that they could vote for?
Do they not have a Green Party or their own versions of Reform or Monster Raving Loony Party?

dsr-burnley · Jul 3, 2024

Zeberdi said:
Yep.

Some of the evidence that was used against him in that case was gathered while he was President - so his lawyers argue. But it’s just a delaying tactic - no-one could argue that falsifying business accounts and paying off one’s fixer is an ‘official act’ of his Presidency.

I'm sure Trump could and would argue that.

The difficulty about that conviction and this ruling is that the offence wasn't paying a prostitute, which is legal, and it wasn't false accounting per se. The offence was that everything he did, including signing those cheques after the election, was done in an attempt to affect the election result. The point was that the after date signatures were all part of the conspiracy that was planned before the election took place.

So by definition, everything he was found guilty of, took place while he was President. I doubt there is a failsafe definition of "official act ".

Zeberdi · Jul 3, 2024

Bodian said:
When you say 'no-one could argue' - don't forget this is Trump we're talking about.

dsr-burnley said:
I'm sure Trump could and would argue that.

Well I meant anyone of sound mind of course :lol:

dsr-burnley said:
So by definition, everything he was found guilty of, took place while he was President. I doubt there is a failsafe definition of "official act "

Good summary and yes, what constitutes an “official act” has been left conveniently vague by SCOTUS and clarifying that in legal arguments will result in months of deliberations (and thus delays) in the lower courts.

dwayne · Jul 3, 2024

Couple of points

1) all this fuss about unlodged payments reminds me of 2008

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/01/04/obama-campaign-fine/1810285/

2) despite being a bit laughable at times was the US really that horrific under trump last time around ? Seem to remember that it was a largely peaceful time in the world when he was last in charge.

pb21 · Jul 3, 2024

Kamala Harris is now, according to bookmakers, more likely to win the election than Biden...

Greg Bobkin · Jul 3, 2024

Pevenseagull said:
Thanks for the heads up. For some reason I've gotten out of the habit of watching Last Week Tonight and now realise I've got 16 episodes to catch up on.

Might need to get a couple of bottles of gaviscon in before I start on them.

There have been some BRILLIANT ones recently. Enjoy!

Greg Bobkin · Jul 3, 2024

pb21 said:
Reading bits n bobs suggesting pressure is building on Biden to pull out, his odds of winning decreasing rapidly...

And yet elsewhere, there are reports on increased donations and retained support since the debate.

Personally I think he'll run and probably still win.

Psychobilly freakout · Jul 3, 2024

I think it is inevitable Trump will win the next election now, and all that comes with that including pardoning himself etc etc.
As sad as that maybe, my main concern is that I get the impression he wont be satisfied with one term, which would be his two terms in power.
I can see him changing the 22nd Amendment and staying in power for as long as he can, until a member of his family is passed the baton.
Is it to far to suggest The United Sates of America could become a dictatorship ?

dsr-burnley · Jul 3, 2024

Psychobilly freakout said:
I think it is inevitable Trump will win the next election now, and all that comes with that including pardoning himself etc etc.
A sad as that maybe, my main concern is that I get the impression he wont be satisfied with one term, which would be his two terms in power.
I can see him changing the 22nd Amendment and staying in power as long as he can, until a member of his family is passed the baton.
Is it to far to suggest The United Sates of America could become a dictatorship ?

Yes, it's too far - certainly by that route. To change the constitution requires a two-thirds majority in both the Senate and the House, and the President isn't involved.

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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

President Joe Biden - Democrat

Donald Trump - Republican

Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

Other Democratic candidate tbc

meh

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