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[Albion] Who will fill the role of The Killer?



M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,450
Fiveways
Guinness Boy said:
We don't have the players for 3-4-3 at the moment, but we're getting there with Barco signed, so long as Hinshlewood recovers. I think we really need to see the ins and outs before we decide who the 'killer' is, if indeed we have one. Gross staying or going and / or Undav staying or going changes who I'd have in the front seven of that system and where.

Let's say for arguments sake we do go 3-4-3 and don't have too many ins and outs then it would be reasonable to assume a front three of Mitoma, Enciso and Pedro. Enciso there wouldn't be in the Hartel role, it would be Gross or his replacement from the '4'. All the STP lineups I've seen have Hartel playing there and not in the front three? I think that's a waste of Mitoma though and hence why I don't think we currently have the right players for it.
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I'm only basing my StP positional comments on articles and nerdy videos but IIRC Hartel is used in the CM duo and on the left of the front 3 too.
Agree with the thrust of the post. My broader view (which I'd doubt you'll disagree with) is that we need to see how FH uses the players that we have and what new signings come in (which might be late in the window, ie after the season starts) before insisting on assigning players to roles within that system and making logical leaps from a singular premise which might well be a false one once we have seen how FH sets us up and uses the players available.
 










M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,450
Fiveways
GT49er said:
Neither did anybody else. Although his control and quick thinking were critical in setting up the OG.
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McTominay and Robertson(?) might just beg to differ with this.
All I'll say is this thread is about who is 'The Killer' and, however good WBG was in setting up the goal last night, he didn't play a 'killer' role in it and, to return to my first contribution to this which you responded to, notched up just one assist in the PL last season and is yet to score at PL level at the ripe young age of 23.
 






Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
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Jul 23, 2003
36,557
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Machiavelli said:
I'm only basing my StP positional comments on articles and nerdy videos but IIRC Hartel is used in the CM duo and on the left of the front 3 too.
Agree with the thrust of the post. My broader view (which I'd doubt you'll disagree with) is that we need to see how FH uses the players that we have and what new signings come in (which might be late in the window, ie after the season starts) before insisting on assigning players to roles within that system and making logical leaps from a singular premise which might well be a false one once we have seen how FH sets us up and uses the players available.
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Totally agree with your broader view.

At the moment Gross could, at a push, play in the middle of the 4 and push into a left sided 10. He has everything for that except pace. Enciso was used as Swansman described at Newcastle to run at and beat players and look to play the killer assist or goal, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near CM.

As for the wide players in the 4, assuming they're what we think of as wingbacks, this is what we have:

Potentially Excellent: Barco, Estupinian, Hinshlewood
Good but injury prone: Lamptey
Would have a very long season: Veltman
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than see them at wingback: Adingra, Mitoma, March, Osman, Milner

But I'm assuming a lot with 'wingbacks'. If FH operates more like Liverpool where the fullbacks push on and a CM covers for them then JV would probably still be ok. Still think that in a 3-4-3 that it's Enciso, Pedro and one other up top in the strongest current XI which would mean we have too many wingers.

Will be an interesting close season / transfer window and I can't wait to get my first glimpse of how we set up.
 






MJsGhost

MJsGhost

Oooh Matron, I'm an
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Jun 26, 2009
4,974
East
Hugo Rune said:
One of these?

View attachment 184359
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A couple of these more like:

1718884810320.png
 


The Fits

The Fits

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
10,005
According to Fbref KDH is one of the closest players statically to Hartel. A weird coincidence.
Number one is Hamburger's Laszlo who's had a stray bit unremarkable career to date. Could the Slovakian be the man we need to unlock Fabball?
Rangers linked with a £5Million move.
(The answer is KDH)
 
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Seagull58

Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,092
Vilamoura, Portugal
Guinness Boy said:
Totally agree with your broader view.

At the moment Gross could, at a push, play in the middle of the 4 and push into a left sided 10. He has everything for that except pace. Enciso was used as Swansman described at Newcastle to run at and beat players and look to play the killer assist or goal, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near CM.

As for the wide players in the 4, assuming they're what we think of as wingbacks, this is what we have:

Potentially Excellent: Barco, Estupinian, Hinshlewood
Good but injury prone: Lamptey
Would have a very long season: Veltman
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than see them at wingback: Adingra, Mitoma, March, Osman, Milner

But I'm assuming a lot with 'wingbacks'. If FH operates more like Liverpool where the fullbacks push on and a CM covers for them then JV would probably still be ok. Still think that in a 3-4-3 that it's Enciso, Pedro and one other up top in the strongest current XI which would mean we have too many wingers.

Will be an interesting close season / transfer window and I can't wait to get my first glimpse of how we set up.
Click to expand...
What is our best XI and what is the best formation for them?
I would offer:-
Verbruggen
Dunk
Van Hecke
Estupinian
Gilmour
Baleba
Gross
Enciso
March
Mitoma
Pedro

but there is no obvious 3rd CB or RWB if we play a 3 and no obvious RB if we play a 4.
 


The Fits

The Fits

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
10,005
Seagull58 said:
What is our best XI and what is the best formation for them?
I would offer:-
Verbruggen
Dunk
Van Hecke
Estupinian
Gilmour
Baleba
Gross
Enciso
March
Mitoma
Pedro

but there is no obvious 3rd CB or RWB if we play a 3 and no obvious RB if we play a 4.
Click to expand...
Curse injuries, that's a bloody good team.
 




US Seagull

US Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
4,231
Cleveland, OH
Han Solo said:
Never even joined! Saw some photos of Leicester though and thought "ok, thats... a place. Location". Happy though, no one here even knows how to pronounce Leicester, whereas everyone knows about the hipster tourist ghetto that appears to be Brighton. But I'm willing to hear people to describe the city of Leicester in a more positive way.
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I went to college in Leicester, it's alright.

If you ever find yourself there, the natives will appreciate if you try to pronounce it correctly. It's "lie-chest-err"

;)
 


Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
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Jul 23, 2003
36,557
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Seagull58 said:
What is our best XI and what is the best formation for them?
I would offer:-
Verbruggen
Dunk
Van Hecke
Estupinian
Gilmour
Baleba
Gross
Enciso
March
Mitoma
Pedro

but there is no obvious 3rd CB or RWB if we play a 3 and no obvious RB if we play a 4.
Click to expand...
With everyone fit I obviously like the RDZ early default 4-2-3-1 with

Verbruggen
Hinshlewood Dunk Van Hecke Estupinian
Gilmour Gross
March Enciso Mitoma
Pedro

But that's because it's how I've seen it work well when they are fit.

3-4-3 with no squad changes feels a bit more

Verbruggen
Veltman (RCB) Dunk Van Hecke
Hinshlewood Glimour (but maybe Baleba in this system) Gross Estupinian
Enciso Pedro Mitoma

But you wouldn't want Velts starting at RCB every game, you'd need to get good games out of Adingra, March and Ferguson and the midfield with just Milner and Moder as back ups for the three mentioned feels horribly light (Dahoud ain't staying with any luck). It's why I think there'll be a few in and outs or a tweak in tactics from FH.

(edit, yes missing out Webster is deliberate as I believe we'll be playing possession football again)
 


P

portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
17,609
Han Solo said:
I spent some time watching ten Pauli games from last season to see what we could expect next season, and I'm very surprised. Slow, controlled, lots of creative freedom. A return to being a poor mans Liverpool rather than a poor mans Tottenham. Good stuff, genuinely excited. Of course I want to kill Hurzeler with a rusty plastic hammer due to being younger than me, but lets face it - its impossible not to get at the very least curious.

Anyway, most interesting thing about Pauli was the role of Marcel Hartel, who made a bunch of assists and goals. While most players were into "better controlled than sorry" mode, Hartel was seemingly instructed to look for decisive solutions every time he had the ball: the finishing pass or cross, shooting, dribbling. Involved in nearly everything. 50/50 he loses the ball or it leads to something really dangerous,

Assuming a similar strategy of a "killer player", who would be ours? Mitoma maybe, since he can do everything. But probably better off "feeding" from "The Killer" (getting morbid now).

Gross is the obvious option. But what if he leaves? Who has the qualities to provide that final spark in the final third?
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Is that a play maker? A far more positive label :)
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,450
Fiveways
Guinness Boy said:
Totally agree with your broader view.

At the moment Gross could, at a push, play in the middle of the 4 and push into a left sided 10. He has everything for that except pace. Enciso was used as Swansman described at Newcastle to run at and beat players and look to play the killer assist or goal, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near CM.

As for the wide players in the 4, assuming they're what we think of as wingbacks, this is what we have:

Potentially Excellent: Barco, Estupinian, Hinshlewood
Good but injury prone: Lamptey
Would have a very long season: Veltman
I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than see them at wingback: Adingra, Mitoma, March, Osman, Milner

But I'm assuming a lot with 'wingbacks'. If FH operates more like Liverpool where the fullbacks push on and a CM covers for them then JV would probably still be ok. Still think that in a 3-4-3 that it's Enciso, Pedro and one other up top in the strongest current XI which would mean we have too many wingers.

Will be an interesting close season / transfer window and I can't wait to get my first glimpse of how we set up.
Click to expand...
Broadly agree. If it is 343, I wouldn't be too adverse to March and/or Mitoma playing WB. With Mitoma, I just think he's most effective on the touchline, as it allows him more time and to receive the ball facing the goal -- both of which allow him to be devastating.
I'll duck out of going further down the discussing players-in-positions route, due to my previous broader point (let's see how effective I am to keeping to it).
 






GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
48,493
Gloucester
Machiavelli said:
Broadly agree. If it is 343, I wouldn't be too adverse to March and/or Mitoma playing WB. With Mitoma, I just think he's most effective on the touchline, as it allows him more time and to receive the ball facing the goal -- both of which allow him to be devastating.
I'll duck out of going further down the discussing players-in-positions route, due to my previous broader point (let's see how effective I am to keeping to it).
Click to expand...
If it is to be 3-4-3, surely it would be Estupinan or Barco at LWB, with Mitoma on the right of the front three (based on current personnel, that is).
 


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