You can now stab burglar, using any force necessary.

[Falkor]

Justice Secretary Ken Clarke has said a householder who knifes a burglar will not have committed a criminal offence under plans to clarify the law on self-defence in England.

He told the BBC people were entitled to use "whatever force necessary" to protect themselves and their homes.

The government is to place people's right to defend their property, long present in common law, in statute.

David Cameron recently said the issue should be put "beyond doubt".

Under the terms of the 2008 Criminal Justice and Immigration Act, homeowners who use "reasonable force" to protect themselves against intruders should not be prosecuted, providing they use no more force than is absolutely necessary.

'Absolute right'
But Mr Clarke said there was "constant doubt" about the issue and people's rights would be made "much clearer" in legislation on sentencing currently before Parliament and due to be debated by MPs later on Wednesday.

"It's quite obvious that people are entitled to use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves and their homes," he said.

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We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so”

Ken Clarke

Asked about what this would mean in practice, he said: "If an old lady finds she's got an 18 year old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

He added: "We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so."

Mr Clarke said legal protection would not extend to anyone shooting a burglar in the back when they were fleeing or "getting their friends together to beat them up".

"We all know what we mean when we say a person has an absolute right to defend themselves and their home and reasonable force.

"Nobody should prosecute and nobody should ever convict anybody whose takes those steps."

The BBC's Political Correspondent Ross Hawkins said it remained to be seen how judges would interpret any change in the law when cases came to court.

Mr Clarke has come under attack over proposed changes to sentencing policy and how best to reduce prison numbers and re-offending but has denied making a series of U-turns on key elements amid pressure from Tory MPs and sections of the media.

BBC News - Right to self-defence in homes to be

Bit of a dangerous statement he is making, i do believe we should be able to defend our property's even anyone unwillingly enters, but i can see it causing alot of agro.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Nothing has changed, the law has permitted you to use reasonable force since the implementation of the Criminal Justice Act

 

[The Spanish]

BBC News - Right to self-defence in homes to be

Bit of a dangerous statement he is making, i do believe we should be able to defend our property's even anyone unwillingly enters, but i can see it causing alot of agro.

there are millions of nutters up and down the country just champing at the bit for this. i bet some mad cnts will be leaving front doors open with suitcases full of cash tellies and ipods all up the hallway, whilst lying in wait above the door like f***ing Kato.

 

[Acker79]

"Whatever force is necessary" still puts a limit on what you can legally do.

 

[Easy 10]

there are millions of nutters up and down the country just champing at the bit for this. i bet some mad cnts will be leaving front doors open with suitcases full of cash tellies and ipods all up the hallway, whilst lying in wait above the door like f***ing Kato.

Genuine LOL

As for the statement from Clarke though...I just cannot take anything this government comes out with seriously any more. Todays sweeping statement is next weeks u-turn.

 

[daveinprague]

How long before the burglars are armed all the time... having said that. Im pretty sure id attack any burglar in my yard. Violently.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

OK, so supposing you invite someone you have a grudge against, into your house, there's no-one else there ( so no witnesses ) and you launch an unprovoked attack on them, which ends up being fatal ( although that wasn't the original intention, you just wanted to 'rough-em-up' a bit ). You then smash a door window and using their still-warm body, put their fingerprints all over the door.

Your statement to the police is that they were burgaling your property. So it's ok then. There's no criminal offence here?

I'm sure the family of the dead person are going to be really pleased about that. They'll probaly invite you round their house for a quick 'chat' as well !

 

[alan partridge]

there are millions of nutters up and down the country just champing at the bit for this. I bet some mad cnts will be leaving front doors open with suitcases full of cash tellies and ipods all up the hallway, whilst lying in wait above the door like f***ing kato.

spam!

 

[Tricky Dicky]

"using any force necessary" that's a very ambiguous statement in itself - necessary to do what ? Protect your life ? Protect your property ? Protect your high-score on Nintendo ?

 

[clippedgull]

Good news. Take a few scum off the streets for ever! The police are pretty much next to useless in responding in most cases.

 

[beorhthelm]

misleading title, its just the initial proposal. wait for it to be watered down to barely any different to now by the time it hits the statute books.

 

[Colossal Squid]

I sort of like the idea of defining what is quite a wishy washy defence of "necessary force" but this will probably just mean we see loonies using the law to their advantage

 

[Kumquat]

OK, so supposing you invite someone you have a grudge against, into your house, there's no-one else there ( so no witnesses ) and you launch an unprovoked attack on them, which ends up being fatal ( although that wasn't the original intention, you just wanted to 'rough-em-up' a bit ). You then smash a door window and using their still-warm body, put their fingerprints all over the door.

Your statement to the police is that they were burgaling your property. So it's ok then. There's no criminal offence here?

I'm sure the family of the dead person are going to be really pleased about that. They'll probaly invite you round their house for a quick 'chat' as well !

Sounds like a plan. did you have anyone in mind??

 

[The Spanish]

spam!

eh whats up now?

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

there are millions of nutters up and down the country just champing at the bit for this. i bet some mad cnts will be leaving front doors open with suitcases full of cash tellies and ipods all up the hallway, whilst lying in wait above the door like f***ing Kato.

Do you think if the burglar shouted "Not now KATO!!" the homeowner would have to let them go?

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

The trouble is a case of criminal damage, like throwing a brick from the pavement, or kicking at someones door, could quite easily be misconstrued as an attempt at gaining unlawful entry, when a crime of actual burglary hasn't been committed. At what point are you allowed to use this necessary force, whilst the perpatrator is still outside, or at the point they walk off the pavement onto your lawn, the door itself into your hallway, or actually attempt to leave the property with one of your possesions?

If someone is in the road randomly trying car doors to gain entry, can I now launch a knife at them, even though they are not on my property?

This doesn't really help to make anything clearer, it just means there's now an 'arms race' between villain and victim.

 

[alan partridge]

eh whats up now?

ipod came up as a link in your post Mr Jobs

 

[Easy 10]

Do you think if the burglar shouted "Not now KATO!!" the homeowner would have to let them go?

Or if the phone rang, the attack would suddenly stop.

 

[Birdie Boy]

OK, so supposing you invite someone you have a grudge against, into your house, there's no-one else there ( so no witnesses ) and you launch an unprovoked attack on them, which ends up being fatal ( although that wasn't the original intention, you just wanted to 'rough-em-up' a bit ). You then smash a door window and using their still-warm body, put their fingerprints all over the door.

Your statement to the police is that they were burgaling your property. So it's ok then. There's no criminal offence here?

I'm sure the family of the dead person are going to be really pleased about that. They'll probaly invite you round their house for a quick 'chat' as well !

Ensure you smash the window from the outside not from the inside... lol

 

[Tricky Dicky]

The trouble is a case of criminal damage, like throwing a brick from the pavement, or kicking at someones door, could quite easily be misconstrued as an attempt at gaining unlawful entry, when a crime of actual burglary hasn't been committed. At what point are you allowed to use this necessary force, whilst the perpatrator is still outside, or at the point they walk off the pavement onto your lawn, the door itself into your hallway, or actually attempt to leave the property with one of your possesions?

If someone is in the road randomly trying car doors to gain entry, can I now launch a knife at them, even though they are not on my property?

This doesn't really help to make anything clearer, it just means there's now an 'arms race' between villain and victim.

There was a case I recall where the householder hurt (stabbed I think) an intruder/burglar. If he had done it inside the house he would not have been prosecuted, but because he chased the guy down the street a little bit before stabbing him, he got taken to court. These things are very difficult to define.