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WW II could we have won without the Muslims?



northstandnorth

THE GOLDSTONE
Oct 13, 2003
2,441
A272 at 85 mph
India's army grew from 200,000 in 1939 to 2.5 million in 1945, with Muslims making up about a third of the numbers at any one time. Most Muslim recruits came from what is now Pakistan.



"A SENSE OF PRIDE"

In all, 87,000 Indian army soldiers were killed in the war, according to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

Jahan's study, which focuses on 5,500 Indian army deaths in Italy, fascinates its audiences because it breaks down Muslim casualties according to recruitment areas within British India, and then traces links between today's British Pakistani communities and the areas where recruitment took place.

Young Muslims specially identify with Jahan's finding that of the 122 deaths of soldiers under 18 in Italy, 90 were Muslim. Among them were three 15-year-olds -- Amir Khan, from Attock, Gulab Khan, from Rawalpindi, and Mian Khan, from Kohat.

In a lecture at Oxford University in April, Jahan spoke of a "a pressing need to restore a sense of identity and self esteem for young British Muslims today".

"If more was known about the contribution of so many Muslim soldiers of the British Indian Army, it would help to restore a sense of pride, cement the social bonds of different communities in British society, and turn the idea of a shared heritage into a meaningful weapon against prejudice," he said.

The workshop was funded by a state programme called "Positive Futures" which supports local initiatives to help disengaged and vulnerable young people.
 






Gregory2Smith1

J'les aurai!
Sep 21, 2011
5,476
Auch
they certainly played there part

but,americans,the channel and spitfires probably had more to do with it
 


northstandnorth

THE GOLDSTONE
Oct 13, 2003
2,441
A272 at 85 mph
In both world wars India provided the largest armies of all the commonwealth countries,it's contribution forgotten in todays climate of hate,prejudice and suspicion.
1 and a half MILLION troops on the ground are worth more than a few Spitfires.
Besides it was the Hurricane that won the air war.
 
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northstandnorth

THE GOLDSTONE
Oct 13, 2003
2,441
A272 at 85 mph
Except that's to remember Sikh and Hindus :dunce:
Yes it was a place of cremation of Indias' war dead but serves as a memorial to ALL of those made the ultimate sacrifice.
At any one time,the commonwealth Indian troop contribution to the WW 2 conflict averaged 1.500.000 men,Muslim troops accounted for a 1/3 of that number.
Could we have won WW2 without them?
 




hitony

Administrator
Jul 13, 2005
16,284
South Wales (im not welsh !!)
Oh this one will be, a sit back with Popcorn and a can of lager...............................and like waiting for 3.00pm on a Saturday Afternoon! (Kick Off)........
 






northstandnorth

THE GOLDSTONE
Oct 13, 2003
2,441
A272 at 85 mph
There was a Muslim division of the Waffen SS.

Hardly surprising(if true) Hitler named the Indian peoples as being "Arian" due to his definition of Arianism being a product to racial purity.
The Caste and Secular nature of India being against inter-faith or inter-class marriages "Arianism" could be defined as a strong Indian trait.
 






8ace

Banned
Jul 21, 2003
23,811
Brighton
Hardly surprising(if true) Hitler named the Indian peoples as being "Arian" due to his definition of Arianism being a product to racial purity.
The Caste and Secular nature of India being against inter-faith or inter-class marriages "Arianism" could be defined as a strong Indian trait.

The one I was talking about was Bosnian or something.
 


glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
A Brighton landmark few on here will have heard of.

The Chattri Memorial

been there many times.
I also made a study of letters and postcards sent from and to the injured soldiers nursed in the Pavilion and what is now the Dome.
Brighton has long historical connections with the sub-continent and there are plenty of items of interest around the Antique and ephemera shops in Brighton still (or at least up till I left for wales 8 years ago)
 


Falkor

Banned
Jun 3, 2011
5,673
Would we have won the war without them, its an impossible question to answer, but what a odd question, would we have won the war without Christians, Catholics etc.... I know this country seems to stick there nose up at Muslims, well some do, most respectable people wont, sadly a few extremists spoil what is largely a peaceful religion.
 




Chicken Runner61

We stand where we want!
May 20, 2007
4,609
There were several reasons World war 2 was one by the Allies...

Stalingrad, Malta and the battle of the bulge were IMHO the main ones - I would include El Alamein but if Malta had fallen El Alamein would probably not have happened.
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,641
Burgess Hill
In both world wars India provided the largest armies of all the commonwealth countries,it's contribution forgotten in todays climate of hate,prejudice and suspicion.
1 and a half MILLION troops on the ground are worth more than a few Spitfires.
Besides it was the Hurricane that won the air war.

Out of interest, on what basis do you think the Hurricane won the air war? Some argue that it was because it shot down more aircraft but others will argue that was only because the Hurricane targetted the bombers because the faster more manourverable Spitfire targetted the escorting fighters!
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,641
Burgess Hill
With regard to the argument about knowledge of the British Indian Army fostering a sense of, for want of a better word, inclusion in British society amongst young muslims, surely this would depend on whether the 1.5m army were volunteers or conscripts!
 










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