Wrexham latest - it stinks!

[attila]

Go for him personally. Follow him around. Target his family, his home, find out where he is if he isn't at his home address, make his life hell without actually using illegal methods (as he is doing to you) That is what we did with Archer.
Stephen:
Petitions and Fans United events are brilliant to spread the word but I still believe it was direct personal pressure on Archer - and more importantly perhaps, his family - which led him to eventually relinquish control. Rumour has it that it was his wife who eventually made him give up: Archer was definitely as bloody minded as Hamilton.

We visited Archer's home about six times and said we were going to many more: each time his family was moved out and the place was surounded by police (one of the more amusing memories of the war years was one carload of us driving to Mellor and walking across a field to Archer's place to see vanloads of police including some in riot gear...

You know how much you hate him. Behave as though you do. Make his life hell.
Don't break the law. But get really tough. It works.

Good luck to you all.

 

[perseus]

Why aren't the Football league interested?

I could guess at a few reasons.

Lots of clubs are in debt and they have borrowed money on the value of their stadium, not as a going concern, but at the value of the land for redevelopment.

If they forbade the clubs to sell their grounds, the banks may want to reduce their loans and put a lot of clubs into even more trouble. That's just a guess.

The the fact as the Albion have found out, it is a false economy to sell off the land before you get a new stadium because it is uneconomic to continue. The losses incurred whilst we are homeless are greater than the sale of the Goldstone for retail use.

Oxford is the only way to go. Keep hold of your old ground until the new one is built and then sell it. It causes enormous cash flow problems in the short term.

 

[perseus]

What do we know that can help?

It is hard to find a new site for a football stadium. Best bet is to stay put.

It can't be public open land (arguable). It has to be farmland surplus to farming requirements. This means on the edge of town with good transport connections, unless yuou have some derelict brownfield land with a very low land value. With a bit of luck, you may have land that is not allocated for housing just waiting for a beautiful football stadium to enhance the environment, although the locals and troublemakers may take a different view.

It takes bloody ages. I think (now?) the Planning Office and Councillors can refuse permission if the club or business has not found a new site. I do NOT know whether it would stand up to appeal. It could take a very long time with a Public Inquiry though.

I am not so sure targetting Hamilton is the right policy? It was different for the Albion because there might not have been grounds for the Councillors to refuse Planning Permission for the Goldstone (the rules were different then and may still be the same).

What (I think) you need to do is to get the politicians on your side. If Hamilton cannot make his money by his asset stripping his plans will come unstuck.

What do the local Councillors think? Are they on your side?

However, I still do not know how you are going to pay the Inland Revenue?

Who have you got in the Cup? A trip to Old Trafford could help.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

.“These are tough times but let me tell you this. This is the most fun I have had with my clothes on since I was 20-years-old.”


This bloke really does sound like scum - he is causing plenty of suffering and anger, and gets off on the power trip. He is a disgrace - the FA really need to stand up and be counted here, to prove that they really do care about the game as a whole. It's too easy to sit back and say "Well, he hasn't actually done anything illegal ..." - the FA need to be proactive, as the fans are

 

[Stu1]

Im up for helping.

f*CKING BASTARDS #


How many times is this shit going to happen.

 

[fatbadger]

Difficult as it is to admit this, but this is beginning to sound worse that Archer et al. OK, personally (as a Brighton fan) it isn't worse, but I don't remember Archer or Bellotti saying they were enjoying what they were doing (although I am sure they did - they weren't so f***ing proud of themselves as to state it in public). Big, big Fans Utd action needed, methinks.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

This is is Prescott's bag. He knows the score. If he wants some brownie points, he could come up with a public statement to this effect.

Then he can give instructions to Planning Offices to forbid Planning Permission in these cases, or at least until a suitable relocation site is available!

Sorry, perseus, you are wrong as far as Wrexham is concerned.

Prescott is not responsible for planning in Wales.

That is a matter for the Welsh Assembly Government, specifically Carwyn Jones AM, Minister for Environment, Planning and Countryside, who reports to the Assembly's Environment, Planning and Countryside Committee.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Email correspondence:

Dear Patricia

Mr Hamilton is deliberately winding Wrexham supporters up with insulting statements, what has
happened to the much heralded Football League "fit and proper persons test"?

It appears that Mr Hamilton isn't a fit and proper person to run anything at the moment never mind
a proud Football Club, he has admitted he is only in it for personal gain!

We don't want another Wimbledon situation at Wrexham, The Football League needs to stamp this
sort of thing out and send a message to rogue chairmen everywhere that supporters can not be
messed with.

I suggest someone from the Football League gets in touch with a member of the Wrexham Supporters
Trust and ask them what they can do to help this situation before Wrexham become another one of
the bankrupt clubs that have gone out of this great league of ours.

REPLY

Stephen

We are in receipt of your communication.

Whilst appreciating how frustrating the situation is, other than re-iterating that The League does not wish to lose any club and continues to maintain a dialogue with Wrexham, there is nothing further we can add.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Difficult as it is to admit this, but this is beginning to sound worse that Archer et al. OK, personally (as a Brighton fan) it isn't worse, but I don't remember Archer or Bellotti saying they were enjoying what they were doing (although I am sure they did - they weren't so f***ing proud of themselves as to state it in public). Big, big Fans Utd action needed, methinks.

I agree.

It might be difficult to imagine, but Hamilton is WORSE than Archer ever was.

 

[On the Left Wing]

I would like to endorse Richie's idea of a masive Wear Red for Wrexham day at a footie full Saturday soon!

 

[Zeitgeist]

Go for him personally. Follow him around. Target his family, his home, find out where he is if he isn't at his home address, make his life hell without actually using illegal methods (as he is doing to you) That is what we did with Archer.
Stephen:
Petitions and Fans United events are brilliant to spread the word but I still believe it was direct personal pressure on Archer - and more importantly perhaps, his family - which led him to eventually relinquish control. Rumour has it that it was his wife who eventually made him give up: Archer was definitely as bloody minded as Hamilton.

We visited Archer's home about six times and said we were going to many more: each time his family was moved out and the place was surounded by police (one of the more amusing memories of the war years was one carload of us driving to Mellor and walking across a field to Archer's place to see vanloads of police including some in riot gear...

You know how much you hate him. Behave as though you do. Make his life hell.
Don't break the law. But get really tough. It works.

Good luck to you all.

Took the words out of my mouth (or keyboard) John. It's time to REALLY up the anti with this bastard. Hit him and hit him HARD! All the other idea's are great and can work in tandem. However, direct action to make life as uncomfortable for him and his family should make him sit up and think..."is it worth putting my family through all this" ?? How is Hamilton off for double glazing and stanna stair lifts??

 

[perseus]

Make a note the situation is not identical.

Whether Archer was just more devious, or just plain negligent, does not matter very much. But the Councillors in the Goldstone case had already granted Planning Permission so we had nothing to lose in that respect.

Wrexham have a political card to play to get the Council to refuse redevelopment plans.

Van Hamilton may call the supporters "scum" and use this to persuade certain Councillors to vote for his plans. It may be wise not to give him ammunition, or it may not matter either way.

One developer's ploy out for a quick buck, is to gain control of the land, get Planning Permission and then sell the land at the new inflated price. Then he vamooses with the dosh. Archer was not going to do this.

The Football League will not help. Inform them and be polite, but do not expect a bean. For them to interfere it would mean putting a kybosh on clubs selling their ground to a holding company and having that company lease the ground back to them, or forming a separate company to run the stadium from the club. This itself is not wrong.

Just because van Hamilton has indicated his intentions, just means he is not such a devious bugger as some of the others.

 

[perseus]

Beware of this move. This is what Archer did.

(Somebody please correct me of the details are wrong.)

Archer and the Albion Board persuaded the Council to grant Planning Permission on the false promise (implied?) that they would look for a new ground if ever the Goldstone was sold. With Planning Permission the assets of the club (private company) were increased so money could be borrowed to tide over the debts and pay the bills.

This was just about OK, until Archer then decided to sell the Goldstone.

Hindsight says it would have been better if Planning Permission was not given.

Promises are no good. You want cast iron assurances. This means dialogue (if possible which seems unlikely).

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Wrexham (I think) are getting support from their council so I would be surprised if planning permission was granted.

Found this out as well:

Council Leader Neil Rogers shot out a warning to supporters, telling them "It isn't time to jump for joy," but explaining that "public money has gone into the ground” and that The Racecourse Ground “has great importance for North Wales and we have resolved to do what we can to safeguard it."

perhaps a good sign of support in the right places.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Just because van Hamilton has indicated his intentions, just means he is not such a devious bugger as some of the others.

It is precisely because Hamilton has already been exposed as a man who is not honest with his intentions that he can be classed as the most devious bugger ever to try to f*** up a football club.

When Gutterman took over Wrexham, he did so on behalf of Hamilton (whose name was kept completely hidden). Only when it was too late for anyone to even murmur, did it transpire that Hamilton had acquired both the ground and the Club (as separate entities). In his capacity as ground owner, he's given notice to the Football Club to quit. And he's now promised to use his majority shareholding to sack all of the Club's directors.

That opens the way for him to shut down the football club (possibly by losing the court case brought by the Inland Revenue) and get vacant possession of the ground.

He's talking to the Supporters' Trust about selling the Football Club to them. But on what terms? Crippling debts, no doubt, and completely beholden to the landlord (Hamilton) who will still own the ground and charge whatever rent he chooses to impose - possibly just for the rest of the season, since the Club still has notice to quit next summer.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Beware of this move. This is what Archer did.

(Somebody please correct me of the details are wrong.)

Archer and the Albion Board persuaded the Council to grant Planning Permission on the false promise (implied?) that they would look for a new ground if ever the Goldstone was sold. With Planning Permission the assets of the club (private company) were increased so money could be borrowed to tide over the debts and pay the bills.

This was just about OK, until Archer then decided to sell the Goldstone.

Hindsight says it would have been better if Planning Permission was not given.

Promises are no good. You want cast iron assurances. This means dialogue (if possible which seems unlikely).

The planning consent given by Hove Borough Council was for a change of use of the Goldstone to retail. This was initially refused by Hove Council, but eventually conceded after a long campaign by fans and the threat of a planning appeal by the Albion. The change of use was explicitly requested by the Club in order to increase the asset value of the Club and allow it to borrow money. Barry Lloyd (then Managing Director) promised that the ground would continue to be used for football until a new stadium became available. But this was never imposed as a planning condition - mainly, in my view, because Hove Borough Council failed to negotiate sensibly with the Albion at the time that the argument about planning permission was going on.

All this happened before Archer achieved control of the Club for £56.25.

 

[Roger Mellie]

can anybody tell me where i can get hold of the book about selling the goldstone ( and its name which I have forgotten ) I tried to get it last year but could not find in shops or amazon

 

[Curious Orange]

can anybody tell me where i can get hold of the book about selling the goldstone ( and its name which I have forgotten ) I tried to get it last year but could not find in shops or amazon

That'll be 'Build A Bonfire'. Out of print I'm afraid.

 

[Roger Mellie]

Thanks for that I have put out an APB for one.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

When I read that initial piece at the top of this thread, for a moment I really thought it was a wind-up. How can he get away with saying that he's not had so much fun with his clothes on since he was 20? What an absolutely despicable ****

I didn't think anyone could be as bad as Archer, but Hamilton's giving him a bloody good run for his money. Red t-shirts it is for me. Plus, I like the buckets around the country idea. Would raise a few quid and get publicity.