[Misc] Working from home

[dazzer6666]

I had an issue with a colleague WFH recently. I won’t going into specifics but why is it unreasonable of your Employer to expect you to be at work on time and getting to your workplace (on time) is not part of your paid work time?

Would agree……you choose to take a job knowing where it’s based……up to you to get there on time.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

I worked with my clients during and post lock down to develop WFH policy (though my view for the last two decades has been to develop "working from where you do your best work" policy).

I've noticed four broad truths:

- people that don't like, or struggle with, working from home are generally anti WFH. And vice versa.

- bosses who don't trust their staff think they will swing the lead when WFH, without realising they were doing that when forced into the office.

- all the research shows that on average people work longer hours when WFH, but are not necessarily more productive.

- those who have dedicated space for WFH generally advocate for it more than those who don't. And this also correlates with age (older workers like remote working - bigger house, nice home set up. Younger workers don't - shared spaces, working from their bed/lap, need social interaction.

One other fact I see now is that if you don't offer WFH for at least two or three days per week, your recruitment will suffer. As will staff retention.

I personally love it (see fourth point above). But what's not to love: kids have left home, dedicated office room, live in the countryside, broadly flexible workload, no commute, no expensive pretty lunches. I'm (gratfully) more productive, less tired and happier than ever.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No to be honest I didn’t know she was still performing/ producing music. I had Raw Like Sushi on cassette tape when it was released.

Her daughter Mabel has had some success recently.

I have Raw on CD. it still sounds good and fresh all these years later.

It’s well worth a listen. It’s made with a couple of guys called RocketNumnerNine and produced by Fourtet.

 

[ozzygull]

I worked with my clients during and post lock down to develop WFH policy (though my view for the last two decades has been to develop "working from where you do your best work" policy).

I've noticed four broad truths:

- people that don't like, or struggle with, working from home are generally anti WFH. And vice versa.

- bosses who don't trust their staff think they will swing the lead when WFH, without realising they were doing that when forced into the office.

- all the research shows that on average people work longer hours when WFH, but are not necessarily more productive.

- those who have dedicated space for WFH generally advocate for it more than those who don't. And this also correlates with age (older workers like remote working - bigger house, nice home set up. Younger workers don't - shared spaces, working from their bed/lap, need social interaction.

One other fact I see now is that if you don't offer WFH for at least two or three days per week, your recruitment will suffer. As will staff retention.

I personally love it (see fourth point above). But what's not to love: kids have left home, dedicated office room, live in the countryside, broadly flexible workload, no commute, no expensive pretty lunches. I'm (gratfully) more productive, less tired and happier than ever.

When the company made me a virtual worker, they already had a policy. I was given an office chair suitable for sitting in for long periods of time, they gave me a budget for a desk so I could pick one suitable for my space. The chairs are very expensive. Of course this went out the window when covid hit and everyone was forced to work from home. I felt really bad for colleagues who didn’t have a dedicated space, sitting at a kitchen table for long hours is really uncomfortable and worse working from a bed.

If I wasn’t lucky enough to have a spare room and space, I would had to either move house or jobs.

So I understand both points of view, working from home for some is not a practical proposition

 

[Exilegull]

Interesting post and follow ups.

I’ve worked in IT for nearly 30 years including as a tester, analyst and scrum master though admittedly not gaming. These sorts of swarms are incredibly rare and fill me with dread. Code that’s been written in the middle of the night by a tired person is always riddled with errors and often, without access to the product owner, the dev has just decided on their own interpretation of the requirements. It always ends up being rewritten.

It’s also very hard to VC. What was your devops process?

Moving a whole company to Sweden would also have been quite the challenge. I know a company that had a big dev operation in Ukraine when the war kicked off. Relocating their people cost millions and needed a funding round, and the speed needed meant they were just relocated to work from home.

The company I was with during lockdown, however, downsized the office, rewrote their travel policy to “essential only” and literally saved millions, savings that are still in place today.

In both cases teams inevitably worked from home and every developer I know has preferred it. They tend to be anti social anyway and just sat in the corner of the office in noise cancelling headphones, regarding scrums or any kind of process as interference from idiots, before lockdown.

I reckon you’ll probably get used to it.

Cant get into deep specifics about our process but moving our team to Sweden was a big decision but we already had a studio there and housing us in the hotel cheap. 20 or so moved many other game developers also moved people around because a new market of a billion people staying at home with nothing to do but play games. VC I dont know. Not my job we have 15k+ employees Im thank god not in charge of feeding them
Agree game programming is not efficent lots of rewriting. But thats how it is in game development rn if we dont do the code designers and animators cant do anything. Bad code is bad but no code worse. We did as you did as much as possible remotely but our IDEs at the time were set up to work poorly outside our offices nothing we could change swiftly. More and more work done remote now for the reasons you say

 

[dazzer6666]

I worked with my clients during and post lock down to develop WFH policy (though my view for the last two decades has been to develop "working from where you do your best work" policy).

I've noticed four broad truths:

- people that don't like, or struggle with, working from home are generally anti WFH. And vice versa.

- bosses who don't trust their staff think they will swing the lead when WFH, without realising they were doing that when forced into the office.

- all the research shows that on average people work longer hours when WFH, but are not necessarily more productive.

- those who have dedicated space for WFH generally advocate for it more than those who don't. And this also correlates with age (older workers like remote working - bigger house, nice home set up. Younger workers don't - shared spaces, working from their bed/lap, need social interaction.

One other fact I see now is that if you don't offer WFH for at least two or three days per week, your recruitment will suffer. As will staff retention.

I personally love it (see fourth point above). But what's not to love: kids have left home, dedicated office room, live in the countryside, broadly flexible workload, no commute, no expensive pretty lunches. I'm (gratfully) more productive, less tired and happier than ever.

Agree with all of that.......including the recruitment piece. Hearing from former colleagues that certain firms who are enforcing office attendance are losing people as a direct result

 

[dazzer6666]

When the company made me a virtual worker, they already had a policy. I was given an office chair suitable for sitting in for long periods of time, they gave me a budget for a desk so I could pick one suitable for my space. The chairs are very expensive. Of course this went out the window when covid hit and everyone was forced to work from home. I felt really bad for colleagues who didn’t have a dedicated space, sitting at a kitchen table for long hours is really uncomfortable and worse working from a bed.

If I wasn’t lucky enough to have a spare room and space, I would had to either move house or jobs.

So I understand both points of view, working from home for some is not a practical proposition

Surprised we haven't yet seen a ton of Occupational Health-related claims post-Covid for people being forced to work with inadequate facilities. I had a fleeting idea during Covid to set up a 'workstation assessment at home' service that companies could use to avoid claims from staff...............

 

[Weststander]

Buffalo Stance or Man Child? love Neneh Cherry

Man Child is amazing.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I had an issue with a colleague WFH recently. I won’t going into specifics but why is it unreasonable of your Employer to expect you to be at work on time and getting to your workplace (on time) is not part of your paid work time?

I’m not saying it’s unreasonable - in fact, I’ve not said that in my post and I’m not quite sure how you’ve jumped to this conclusion.

Nonetheless, it is unreasonable that someone fresh out of uni has this benefit, and senior members of staff have this benefit, but I don’t. Any work place that has a “do as I say, not as I do” workplace culture will quickly demotivate intelligent members of staff.

I also do a job that could easily be done from home. The world is changing too - it’s not unreasonable to expect the working world to change with that. The work week is still based off the industrial age 9-5 working week, where we had sole income earning families. This simply isn’t the case anymore, meaning people get less time than ever to enjoy life, often for substantially less financial outcome than previous generations enjoyed for the same amount of work.

So whilst I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect me to work the hours I’m paid for, which I’d do if WFH too, I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for a company to move with the times and treat their employees with some trust and respect.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Would agree……you choose to take a job knowing where it’s based……up to you to get there on time.

Absolutely. But surely it’s better to ask the company I work for for this benefit when they’re offering it to other staff members rather than simply going to another employer that offers this benefit?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I worked with my clients during and post lock down to develop WFH policy (though my view for the last two decades has been to develop "working from where you do your best work" policy).

I've noticed four broad truths:

- people that don't like, or struggle with, working from home are generally anti WFH. And vice versa.

- bosses who don't trust their staff think they will swing the lead when WFH, without realising they were doing that when forced into the office.

- all the research shows that on average people work longer hours when WFH, but are not necessarily more productive.

- those who have dedicated space for WFH generally advocate for it more than those who don't. And this also correlates with age (older workers like remote working - bigger house, nice home set up. Younger workers don't - shared spaces, working from their bed/lap, need social interaction.

One other fact I see now is that if you don't offer WFH for at least two or three days per week, your recruitment will suffer. As will staff retention.

I personally love it (see fourth point above). But what's not to love: kids have left home, dedicated office room, live in the countryside, broadly flexible workload, no commute, no expensive pretty lunches. I'm (gratfully) more productive, less tired and happier than ever.

A very sensible post. Companies should move with the times. I appreciate the boomer generation still own many of these businesses, but sooner or later they will have to update their policies. Younger generations just won’t accept all the unpaid hours that are required going to an office, especially when it’s coupled with quite frankly awful salaries that most industries are suffering from in this country.

 

[Me Atome]

Just a thought here - do any employers ever inspect the work-places of those working at home? When in the office employers are obliged to ensure proper desk, chair, screen, heating, lighting etc. But what about when at home?

And what about those working in the kitchen with small children running around all day? That's not likely to be very efficient.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Just a thought here - do any employers ever inspect the work-places of those working at home? When in the office employers are obliged to ensure proper desk, chair, screen, heating, lighting etc. But what about when at home?

And what about those working in the kitchen with small children running around all day? That's not likely to be very efficient.

My previous employer required a Worl place assessment form to be completed every 6 months including a photo of the work set up. We weee encouraged to call out any issues. I have a decent desk chair from them that they didn’t want back when I left.

My current employer, nothing but we are not exclusively WFH, although many do

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Just a thought here - do any employers ever inspect the work-places of those working at home? When in the office employers are obliged to ensure proper desk, chair, screen, heating, lighting etc. But what about when at home?

And what about those working in the kitchen with small children running around all day? That's not likely to be very efficient.

Interesting question. If the contract says that you work from the office but you are allowed to work remotely, then I believe the onus is on the employee. If the contract says you can work from home as you place of work, then the onus is on the employer. At which point they become liable for health and safety and probably need to provide chairs, desks, assessments etc.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

I’m not saying it’s unreasonable - in fact, I’ve not said that in my post and I’m not quite sure how you’ve jumped to this conclusion.

Nonetheless, it is unreasonable that someone fresh out of uni has this benefit, and senior members of staff have this benefit, but I don’t. Any work place that has a “do as I say, not as I do” workplace culture will quickly demotivate intelligent members of staff.

I also do a job that could easily be done from home. The world is changing too - it’s not unreasonable to expect the working world to change with that. The work week is still based off the industrial age 9-5 working week, where we had sole income earning families. This simply isn’t the case anymore, meaning people get less time than ever to enjoy life, often for substantially less financial outcome than previous generations enjoyed for the same amount of work.

So whilst I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect me to work the hours I’m paid for, which I’d do if WFH too, I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for a company to move with the times and treat their employees with some trust and respect.

Apologies, I wasn’t meaning to have a dig at you. I work in a small office (sub 10 peaople) and I know the ones who will never take liberties and the ones that do, either in or out of the office environment.

I unofficially allow working at home in between external meetings and I have been more flexible to a younger member of staff who lived 25 miles from the office when petrol prices spiked.

I do think there is a marked difference if you work in London when it’s costing you 7/8k a year and two hours commuting time per one way journey compared to day if you lived within 10 miles of an office. I do think some working at home is a good thing but interaction with other members of staff and seeing how more senior staff react and deal with problems is part of our training which you don’t just get when working 100% at home.

I have had two recent poor experiences though of someone taking the proverbial when allowed to work 1 day a week from home (which then became 2/3 days a week) with unsurprisingly 50% less output on a Friday and another issue with a senior member of staff.

It was just that your post seemed to imply, to me anyway, that time spent travelling to your base work location is “work”. I have also had to explain on numerous occasions to certain staff that being at your desk on time but then having your bowl of cornflakes and toast at your desk for the next half hour is not work!

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Apologies, I wasn’t meaning to have a dig at you. I work in a small office (sub 10 peaople) and I know the ones who will never take liberties and the ones that do, either in or out of the office environment.

I unofficially allow working at home in between external meetings and I have been more flexible to a younger member of staff who lived 25 miles from the office when petrol prices spiked.

I do think there is a marked difference if you work in London when it’s costing you 7/8k a year and two hours commuting time per one way journey compared to day if you lived within 10 miles of an office. I do think some working at home is a good thing but interaction with other members of staff and seeing how more senior staff react and deal with problems is part of our training which you don’t just get when working 100% at home.

I have had two recent poor experiences though of someone taking the proverbial when allowed to work 1 day a week from home (which then became 2/3 days a week) with unsurprisingly 50% less output on a Friday and another issue with a senior member of staff.

It was just that your post seemed to imply, to me anyway, that time spent travelling to your base work location is “work”. I have also had to explain on numerous occasions to certain staff that being at your desk on time but then having your bowl of cornflakes and toast at your desk for the next half hour is not work!

All points taken on board and thanks for the sensible reply.

Regarding your point about time travelled, the place I work at pull people in if they’re late. This means that most staff have to get there early to ensure there’s a parking space, meaning that there’s always additional time given to the workplace which isn’t paid time.

I also feel (and I appreciate everyone is entitled to a different opinion) that people need a balance in their lives. If you’re spending 40 hours a work commuting and this is unpaid, this is time away from your family or doing things you enjoy, but in service of the company you’re working for. The way to find balance is to allow WFH. As I explained in my post, this was one of a number of reasons I’m asking for it.

Just to be clear, I’ve got a pretty exceptional record at my workplace. I’m the only person there with my skill set, and I could do 99% of that work from a laptop anywhere in the world.

Would I be more productive at home than in the office? I believe so - I personally find the office is full of distractions. Of course there would be days when I’d feel less productive, but that’s inevitable for everyone, whether office based or WFH.

Either way, trust and flexibility are vital, and they’re becoming even more important as employment situations continue to be rebalanced and employees put more focus on their work life balance.

 

[North of Robertsbridge]

Buffalo Stance or Man Child? love Neneh Cherry

I saw her dad Don Cherry play a few times in Angoulême when I lived there; I think they had a place near there. Talented family

 

[Pondicherry]

I think there are some very good points made in this discussion from both for and against working from home.

My own experience was that I always worked in offices for relatively large organizations. When Covid hit we had to work for home for a few weeks. I did not enjoy it as I missed the routine and the people. As we were key workers, I was offered the choice to go back in after 3 weeks and did. Not many people did (maybe 10%) but it was good to see people and there was loads of space in the office and the company provided free food and drinks for those going in. Only downside was having to reboot PC's when there were problems from individuals who were remoting into their workplace PC.

Anyway Covid gradually ended and people drifted back. Company performance had suffered and they wanted people back in. They wanted minimum of 3 days a week in the office. No problem for me, I was doing 5. It was a problem for others as they had established other routines which incorporated school runs, cleaning the house, popping to the shops, cooking and watching TV. Recruitment was and is an issue so when staff ignored the edict, no action was taken by the company as they could not afford to lose what work that was being done.

The problem with this was that company results continued to suffer and they were trapped in a cycle of low productivity that they could do little about. Redundancies packages were offered to try and save money I presume. I took my offer as it was half decent.

Got another local office job where I can cycle to work. Its a small private company (30 staff max) but everyone has to be in the office. Everyone works hard. As soon as you walk in the office you can sense its a 'work hard' place. New staff pick up good basic habits. Be on time, accuracy, English and presentation style. The basics really. This is how collaboration, mentoring and ideas sharing work best I think.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I saw her dad Don Cherry play a few times in Angoulême when I lived there; I think they had a place near there. Talented family

It is quite a family isn’t it? Aside from Don her half-brother is Eagle Eyed Cherry and her daughter has had a reasonably successful career as well.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I think there are some very good points made in this discussion from both for and against working from home.

My own experience was that I always worked in offices for relatively large organizations. When Covid hit we had to work for home for a few weeks. I did not enjoy it as I missed the routine and the people. As we were key workers, I was offered the choice to go back in after 3 weeks and did. Not many people did (maybe 10%) but it was good to see people and there was loads of space in the office and the company provided free food and drinks for those going in. Only downside was having to reboot PC's when there were problems from individuals who were remoting into their workplace PC.

Anyway Covid gradually ended and people drifted back. Company performance had suffered and they wanted people back in. They wanted minimum of 3 days a week in the office. No problem for me, I was doing 5. It was a problem for others as they had established other routines which incorporated school runs, cleaning the house, popping to the shops, cooking and watching TV. Recruitment was and is an issue so when staff ignored the edict, no action was taken by the company as they could not afford to lose what work that was being done.

The problem with this was that company results continued to suffer and they were trapped in a cycle of low productivity that they could do little about. Redundancies packages were offered to try and save money I presume. I took my offer as it was half decent.

Got another local office job where I can cycle to work. Its a small private company (30 staff max) but everyone has to be in the office. Everyone works hard. As soon as you walk in the office you can sense its a 'work hard' place. New staff pick up good basic habits. Be on time, accuracy, English and presentation style. The basics really. This is how collaboration, mentoring and ideas sharing work best I think.

All of these are valid points, but also prefaced by the fact that you have a clear preference.

Just because something works best for you, doesn’t mean it does for everyone else, that’s the point of this (not a dig by the way - I’m all for flexibility).

I think it’s also important to point out two things:

1) it’s no surprise productivity dropped at your old work place as many staff probably felt substantially less motivated and under much higher time constraints. This is a representation of poor management, more than anything.

2) you and I remember COVID office work very differently. It was a highly unpleasant time for myself and many of my colleagues who were forced into an office space, surrounded by ill people, just because our boss wouldn’t give us a laptop to do the work from home. It was incredibly stressful and totally unnecessary.