Will the Yanks see the light?

[London Irish]

The CBS 60 Minutes report on torture by US soldiers in Iraq is going to convulse US public opinion.

Have a look at the CBS mailbag here to gauge the shock and disbelief stateside:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/29/60II/main614799.shtml

You are tempted to say well done to CBS, if they hadn't sat on the story for weeks on the orders of the US military.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The CBS site has some interesting stories, including this one:-

Terrorism Down

WASHINGTON, April 29, 2004

The State Department reported Thursday there were fewer international terrorist attacks last year than any time since 1969 — but the figures don't include most of the violence in Iraq.

Though Bush administration officials frequently refer to Iraqi insurgents as terrorists, most attacks in Iraq were not considered international terrorism because they were directed at combatants, the report said.

"Increasingly, the line between insurgency and terrorism has been blurred by anti-coalition attacks that have included suicide car bombings at police stations, an Italian military police base and the headquarters of the International Red Cross," the State Department said in its annual report on terrorism.

The 181-page Patterns of Global Terrorism Report offered a country-by-country review of terrorist attacks and cooperation in fighting terrorism.

In its introduction, the State Department's top counterterrorism official, Cofer Black, cited Saudi Arabia "as an excellent example of a nation increasingly focusing its political will to fight terrorism." The kingdom has frequently been criticized by members of Congress for not doing enough to stop terrorism.

Black said terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia in May and November "served to strengthen Saudi resolve."

"Saudi Arabia has launched an aggressive, comprehensive and unprecedented campaign to hunt down terrorists, uncover their plots and cut off their sources of funding," Black wrote.

Black also said al Qaeda "is no longer the organization it once was. ... Most of the group's senior leadership is dead or in custody, its membership on the run and its capabilities sharply degraded." He said more 3,400 al Qaeda suspects have been detained worldwide.

The fight against terrorism "will be of uncertain duration, but additional deadly attacks are certain," Black warned.

Of the seven nations designated as sponsors of terrorism, the report said Libya and Sudan "took significant steps to cooperate in the global war on terrorism." But Cuba, Iran, Syria and North Korea didn't do enough to sever their ties to terrorism.

Iraq technically remains on the list, because it can't be removed until it has a government in place. President Bush has exempted it from sanctions imposed on state sponsors of terrorism.

Among the findings in the report:
• There were 190 acts of international terrorism last year, compared with 198 in 2002 and 346 in 2003. It was the lowest figure in 34 years.
• In those attacks last year, 307 people were killed, compared with 725 in 2002; 1,593 people were wounded, compared with 2,013 in 2002.
• Thirty-five Americans died in 15 international terrorist attacks. The deadliest was a May 12 attack by suicide bombers in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, that killed nine U.S. citizens and 26 people overall.
• Anti-U.S. attacks increased slightly to 82 from 77 in 2002. But they have declined sharply since the 219 attacks in 2001.
• Asia had the highest number of international terrorism attacks, with 159 people killed in 70 attacks.
The figures do not include attacks considered to be domestic terrorism in which foreigners weren't among the victims. For example, the report listed three people killed in international terrorism attacks last year in all of Latin America. A nightclub bombing in Bogota, Colombia, that killed 34 people wasn't included because it was considered domestic terrorism.

Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism analyst for the Rand Corp., said the annual report is considered the "gold standard" for measuring terrorism, "but it's only giving you part of the picture and it's a picture that's changing dramatically" with the growth in domestic terrorism.

"It's harder to draw meaningful inferences looking at just international terrorism," he said.

By Ken Guggenheim

 

[Lady Bracknell]

They're horrible chilling pictures which, as they said on the BBC News tonight, are going to have some very serious consequences on the already almost non-existent "relationship" between the Coalition Forces and the Iraqi population

Apparently, some of the perpetrators are claiming they hadn't had the Geneval Convention Rules explained to them. Which, as any sort of justification, is worth absolutely f*** all! What kind of moral code are these people working to if they need a sodding rule book to tell them that wiring people's genitals and setting the dogs on them is an unacceptable way to treat prisoners? The awful, perverted, "souvenir" aspect of the pictures is particularly horrid too with all those "Hi Mom & Dad, here's what we're doing on our trip to Iraq!" expressions on the guards posing next to the prisoners they are abusing.

And to think that we were told the Iraqis had to be "liberated" from a regime of terror and abuse of human rights! Pshaw!

 

[tedebear]

Some of the email responses are incredible :

"While tens of thousands of U.S. men and women serve their country in the Battle of Iraq, 60 Minutes II has the audacity to violate their character by showing the disgusting actions of "several" of their comrades to foreign prisoners.

Not only do you "report" the incident, you distastefully show the pictures that only serve to brand all our loved ones in uniform. You leave little doubt, both past and present, of your liberal agenda and desire to taint this military action. "

I was reading through all those emails and was wondering when someone would raise the question of using these current affairs shows for political purpose....

America is finally starting to wake up and smell the cheese - that they have created some power hungry monsters of soldiers who believe that God will forgive them - so they can do whatever they like....whilst the rest of the workd watches in horror and increasing disgust...

 

[Brovion]

Hmm. So who's going to be the first American to say "Hey, like, er, we were only following orders!"

 

[REDLAND]

Im shocked to the core that this made it to the news, it happens all the time on both sides but never usually makes the press !!!

 

[Yorkie]

Man's inhumanity to man. No nation is exempt.

 

[tedebear]

very true Yorkie - although historically the Americans have had a habit of turning a blind eye - I'm glad they are finally being shown the truth...

 

[Lush]

I think that it is showing the American people exactly what war is like.

You force young not very well educated soldiers to endure incredibly stressful situations when all they probably want is to be at home. Inevitably they ask themselves "What the hell am I doing here?".

And there is no real answer - unless you count "to ensure that the folks back home get all the oil they need".

So many soldiers settle upon - "the people I am fighting deserve it, they are the scum of the earth etc". The hate is so strong because the war environment is so harsh and stressful. It is inevitable that things like this happen to prisoners when caught.

 

[Icy Gull]

This gets more like Vietnam revisted every day

 

[Rougvie]

Ah well never mind, its a BANK holiday

 

[Lammy]

Where's the pictures?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It is inevitable that things like this happen to prisoners when caught.

Am I being naive if I disagree? War crimes are not "inevitable". They are crimes. They must be dealt with.

Just as the My Lai massacre in Vietnam raised the question of how the USA could produce young men capable of perpetrating such horrors, we need to be asking the same question now.

 

[bhafc4eva]

One iraqi was tolt to stand on a box with wires attatched to his hands and if he fell off he would be electrocuted.

 

[Albion Dan]

One iraqi was tolt to stand on a box with wires attatched to his hands and if he fell off he would be electrocuted.

Yeah f***ing hilarious you prick!

 

[US Seagull]

very true Yorkie - although historically the Americans have had a habit of turning a blind eye - I'm glad they are finally being shown the truth...

I think you are wrong there. It is exactly because Americans won't turn a blind eye that we are even hearing about this. Not to excuse this in anyway but it is hardly unpresedented in the history of warfare. Hopefully all those responsible, including the commanding officers will be punished, but this hardly a uniquely American problem nor does it accurately represent the whole of the US armed forces.
Does anybody rememeber the Candian paratroopers in Somalia?

 

[US Seagull]

This story also reminds me of this:

Stanford Prison Experiment

 

[London Irish]

US Seagull - "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" is the best Ann Coulter quote, 2 out of 3 from Bush ain't bad.

Available from all good web bookstores:

http://www.thbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6230

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The only thing these pictures is likely to do is convert more Muslims everywhere to Islamic radicalism. And frankly who could blame them. Time for regime change in the U.S.

 

[Juan Albion]

And now that pictures seem to show British troops doing the same kind of thing, will you say the same generalisations apply to 'Limeys'? Somehow it is easier to ignore the fact it is only a minority when it is guys from another country.

As Yorkie suggested, war brings out the worst in all sides. It is not unique to the Yanks. It is, however, easy to sit at a computer desk and criticise without having been scared for your very life every minute of every day for the last year. Who can say how we would react if we thought we were alone with someone on he same side as the guy who blew our best mate's brains out ?