Why you should try to avoid shopping at Amazon

[1066familyman]

Do people really think business' that pay staff minimum wage shouldn't be operating and the country would be in a better position if they cut their staffing? Seriously?

We don't pay all of our staff £10 p/h but all are above minimum wage. If the government decided this was to be the new minimum quite simply i and many a similar company wouldn't bother trying to expand our business as there just simply wouldn't be enough profit to be worth the extra stress involved with the extra turnover! I'd like to think my staff are all happy with us but of they believe they can earn better with better conditions good luck to them.

And Nibble, if you think seriously that EVERYONE has a god given right to the sort of WEEKLY luxuries you have listed you are living on another planet...

Whilst I tend to agree that Nibble's figure of £250 pw is an eyebrow raiser, can I just ask WHO you think should expect the right to that kind of figure? Do you, for instance, as a business owner expect it? And further more, should all business owners expect it? And what kind of workers do you think should expect it?

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Absolutely this!

I do use Amazon as well as other online retailers, and due to the price of the items being sold cheaper than our own High Street stores I will continue to carry on doing so. It's human nature to save money and that's not going to alter in the near future.

However, this will ultimately put people out of work because these High Street stores are disappearing before our very eyes. I give it 20 years max and there won't be any High street stores remaining even in larger towns and cities. Lewes is an absolute joke of a town to shop in nowadays so we have to shop online or travel away. You can't even buy underwear here anymore! The going rate for renting a shop isn't financially viable, so the town is dying a slow and painful death. Unless you want a 'posh' coffee and then buy some 2nd hand clothes then forget it.

Amazon may not be around forever but someone else will take over when they have gone.

Amazon don't employ anyone and no people are involved in making the goods they sell or distributing
Why is it that towns should have shops?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Do people really think business' that pay staff minimum wage shouldn't be operating and the country would be in a better position if they cut their staffing? Seriously?

We don't pay all of our staff £10 p/h but all are above minimum wage. If the government decided this was to be the new minimum quite simply i and many a similar company wouldn't bother trying to expand our business as there just simply wouldn't be enough profit to be worth the extra stress involved with the extra turnover! I'd like to think my staff are all happy with us but of they believe they can earn better with better conditions good luck to them.

And Nibble, if you think seriously that EVERYONE has a god given right to the sort of WEEKLY luxuries you have listed you are living on another planet...

But this argument was used at the introduction of the minimum wage and it was shown to be unfounded then as it is probably now. And if you are turned off expanding because of paying a proper wage then maybe another more efficient innovative company with smarter ways of working, better ideas and products can step in to take up your 'stress'ful expansion? Just a thought?

 

[Nibble]

Really. If there are people on here that don't think our economy could support a living wage you are sadly mistaken. There is plenty of money in the UK, it's just not in the right place.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Really. If there are people on here that don't think our economy could support a living wage you are sadly mistaken. There is plenty of money in the UK, it's just not in the right place.

This.

 

[1066familyman]

The working class are treated like rats, made to compete with each other for little scraps of food. There is enough wealth in the world for all people to live comfortably, the working class could live with the same dignity and freedom as anyone else - but that is not in the interests of governments and corporations whose only interest is profit, to make investors and shareholders even richer for doing virtually nothing.

Point of order. They do not get even richer for doing virtually nothing. They get even richer for having the means to make yet more money. The money/capital does the work for them, and I'm sure that must be very hardwork. The rules of the game are quite clear.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Amazon give a first class service. I will continue to use until that changes.

 

[TheJasperCo]

It's funny how completely opposite Amazon is to one of it's subsidiaries, Royal Mail.

I was talking to a colleague who couldn't believe the Amazon way of working.
'If you get 3 points you're sacked', I replied 'that's the real world'.

'Late 1/2 point' - RM we seem to be able to stroll in when we want.
'Sick 1 point' - RM we've had our sick entitlement halved to only 8 months before the slate is wiped clean again.
'Standards of workrate need to be maintained' - RM we just say 'oh there's too much work I'm not taking x'. Or, stay out for guaranteed overtime.

The list goes on and on

Somewhere between the two there's a great company to work for.

Is that likely to change since RM is now privatised?

 

[Skint Gull]

So a couple on minimum wage should be entitled to have 2k a month between them after all bills? You're suggesting that they should be entitled to go out for a couple of £75 meals a week and a couple of days out with the kids a week as well as all of the other items you listed?

I would love for your idealisms to be feasible but quite simply thousands of business' would fold. Can you imagine little florists paying assistants 21k p/a?

Imagine how much your bacon Sarnie would cost if your little cafe had to pay their staff 50% more.

Or if the nursery who looks after your kids had to pay those salaries?

So many tiny business' provide millions of jobs across the country that probably many of the owners don't earn 21k, would we really be in a better place if they all shut their doors?

 

[Nibble]

So a couple on minimum wage should be entitled to have 2k a month between them after all bills? You're suggesting that they should be entitled to go out for a couple of £75 meals a week and a couple of days out with the kids a week as well as all of the other items you listed?

I would love for your idealisms to be feasible but quite simply thousands of business' would fold. Can you imagine little florists paying assistants 21k p/a?

Imagine how much your bacon Sarnie would cost if your little cafe had to pay their staff 50% more.

Or if the nursery who looks after your kids had to pay those salaries?

So many tiny business' provide millions of jobs across the country that probably many of the owners don't earn 21k, would we really be in a better place if they all shut their doors?

You'll note I said in an ideal world. Or you won't clearly. No, 250 a week would be an ideal and isn't that hard to attain but not feasable for everyone to attain as you say. However, a living wage should be available to anyone willing to work. Greed of business owners and Tory cowtows is the only barrier to such basic dignities.

As has been re-iterated on here many times, the introduction of a living wage simply would not lead to businesses closing left right and centre. And if yo are a business that cannot compete AND pay your staff a decent wage there will, I guarantee you, be someone who can.

 

[Stat Brother]

Is that likely to change since RM is now privatised?

We're guaranteed for the next 3 years, the union are after longer, as we aren't connected to the real world.

I was frowned upon when I ended the original conversation:-

'We're just a glorified Remploy, keeping the spastics off the dole queue'

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

So a couple on minimum wage should be entitled to have 2k a month between them after all bills? You're suggesting that they should be entitled to go out for a couple of £75 meals a week and a couple of days out with the kids a week as well as all of the other items you listed?

I would love for your idealisms to be feasible but quite simply thousands of business' would fold. Can you imagine little florists paying assistants 21k p/a?

Imagine how much your bacon Sarnie would cost if your little cafe had to pay their staff 50% more.

Or if the nursery who looks after your kids had to pay those salaries?

So many tiny business' provide millions of jobs across the country that probably many of the owners don't earn 21k, would we really be in a better place if they all shut their doors?

Indeed.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

You'll note I said in an ideal world. Or you won't clearly. No, 250 a week would be an ideal and isn't that hard to attain but not feasable for everyone to attain as you say. However, a living wage should be available to anyone willing to work. Greed of business owners and Tory cowtows is the only barrier to such basic dignities.

As has been re-iterated on here many times, the introduction of a living wage simply would not lead to businesses closing left right and centre. And if yo are a business that cannot compete AND pay your staff a decent wage there will, I guarantee you, be someone who can.

interesting

 

[Skint Gull]

And i agree fully, my staff who are worth £10 an hour will get £10 an hour. The debate here is about making that a minimum wage and clearly not everyone on the current minimum is worth any more than that

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Amazon give a first class service. I will continue to use until that changes.

I think that sums it up nicely.

In the short-term, Amazon is great for people as it gives a very efficient and convenient service, with prices that are usually cheaper than anywhere else. I'm also 'guilty' as anyone in that respect as I use Amazon frequently and am always impressed with the choice it offers.

However, there is a long term cost, such as the cost to jobs, the destruction of the high street, the closing of companies who can't compete with one deliberately working at a loss to gain a monopoly. Whether we like it or not, these things also have an impact on our quality of life, both as citizens and consumers. Can't ignore these things forever.

 

[1066familyman]

And i agree fully, my staff who are worth £10 an hour will get £10 an hour. The debate here is about making that a minimum wage and clearly not everyone on the current minimum is worth any more than that

So to be clear, in your opinion, not everyone on the current minimum wage (currently £6.31ph for those over 21, £5.03 for 18-20yr olds and £3.72 for U18's) is worth more than they are currently getting.

Is the huge housing benefit, working tax credit and child tax credit bill worth it in your opinion I wonder? Are businesses and private landlords/ladies all l'oréal?

 

[Nibble]

And i agree fully, my staff who are worth £10 an hour will get £10 an hour. The debate here is about making that a minimum wage and clearly not everyone on the current minimum is worth any more than that

Who is not worth that? If a company is staffed by people that ar enot worth at least a tenner an hour you've either not trained them properly, don't offer enough incentive for them to work properly or have just plain been shockingly bad at the recruitment process. These are exactly the businesses that will quite rightly go down the pan.

 

[beorhthelm]

Who is not worth that?

presumably all those that would be deemed only worth the living wage, at £7.65?

a note on tax credits. that was an ruse to bring about state dependency amongst a large group of low paid. its daft, why not simply raise the tax/NI theasholds rather than bribe those workers with money they already paid in?

 

[1066familyman]

presumably all those that would be deemed only worth the living wage, at £7.65?

a note on tax credits. that was an ruse to bring about state dependency amongst a large group of low paid. its daft, why not simply raise the tax/NI theasholds rather than bribe those workers with money they already paid in?

State dependency among a large group of low paid you say? Surely not!

I thought I'm just imagining it every time I hear reports of the numbers of people in work and claiming benefits on the rise even as we speak. There was me thinking only work shy good for nothings are dependant on state benefits.

 

[soistes]

It appears there is very few business people frequenting this thread. Or economists come to that.

I run a successful business with 40 staff, and have a masters degree in economics.
It doesn't qualify me to comment any more than others on here, but for what it's worth, I think there's a strong case currently for an increase in the minimum wage -- ultimately, of course, there would be a point at which, if you raised the minimum wage, it would have a negative impact on aggregate employment. It's not clear exactly what level that would be, but most evidence suggests it's well above the current level. At the moment the minimum wage could, in my view, be safely increased up towards the £10 mark, certainly in London and the SE, with little or no effect on total employment. Some low-end, low skill, poorly managed, low value added businesses might struggle a bit, but they're the kind of businesses we could do with less of in this country anyway. We can never compete globally on low wages alone.
Over the longer-term, any slight squeeze on margins as a result of increasing the minimum wage would act as an incentive for businesses to increase their performance levels, and invest in skill and technology, which is a good thing and would ultimately contribute to growth, and job generation. Further, the fact is that people on low wages spend nearly all of their income, whereas business owners, managers and shareholders don't, so an increase in the minimum wage acts effectively to shift a bit of income from the latter groups to the former, and that income will immediately leak into consumption spending (rather than savings) with a corresponding positive impact on overall economic demand.