[Football] Why are English football grounds so boring (compared to Europe)??

[Cheeky Monkey]

You know it’s possible to create an atmosphere in seats. We’ve done it a few times.

Did someone say ‘the Sheffield Wednesday game’ ?

 

[SAC]

This is basically it. Because violence was so bad in the 80s the next 40 years was dedicated to methods to prevent it. It's pretty obvious the most violent are likely to also be the most vocal.

It also has never been an English way to support teams with flares, drums and huge banners. Every country has their thing, our thing is providing the highest quality football, and a huge football pyramid which is unrivaled anywhere in the world.

I don't think it was the European way either but they (or some) seemed to evolve whereas we didn't. Possibly because we were more restricted due to all seater stadium and CCTV.

 

[loz]

Manufactured, by blokes at the front with megaphones.

Not the megaphones, but wasn’t it always “manufactured” but a certain group of lads / ladies who everyone new were the singing lot, they started we followed.

 

[Weststander]

Not the megaphones, but wasn’t it always “manufactured” but a certain group of lads / ladies who everyone new were the singing lot, they started we followed.

I was talking about the AEK and Marseille thing.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Welbeck gave very sensible answer when asked by journalist yesterday about the impact of the crowd. Basically, it's good when they are behind us and noisy but only really matters if we are doing the business on the pitch.

 

[Mellotron]

It's just noise though isn't it? Watching on the telly I thought they were largely bland atmospheres in Marseilles and Rome. Yes a lot of noise, an extreme amount of noise, and awe-inspiring to see at the start, but where was the connection with the game? Where was the ebb and flow and the crescendo as the home team attacked? Were there recognisable songs and chants? You couldn't hear the away fans at all, which seems to me to be lacking one of the key parts of a great atmosphere, the back and forth between rival supporters. Noise and pyro, fine, but an atmosphere is something to be savoured.

That's not saying that English atmospheres are generally much good in these days of allseater stadia, usually dull, but they can sometimes be amazing, and I'd take that anyday over the European version

I could not agree more.

English fans actually REACT to the game, there's an ebb and flow. I find that far more engaging than just 95 minutes of non-stop LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA with no relevance whatsoever to what's happening on the pitch. There's no dynamic range whatsoever, which makes it incredibly boring after a while IMO.

 

[Weststander]

Yes, exactly. The Cappo is just a DJ or Conductor. There's a set list of songs to go through. No room for moments like at The Goldstone playing against Ipswich when the North Stand broke into "John Wark looks like a hippo's bum" right up to last week with the new "teargassed in Athens" song on buses and in the ground, via 'cry in a minute' every time we played Mr Tumble. It's a performance, nothing more or less.

A silly one that me laugh, in a mid 90’s Goldstone game against Plymouth was “You only sing when you’re fishing”, also p-takes about sheep when Cardiff or Swansea visited. The (harmless) chants to Hodgson were brilliant “Hodgson, Hodgson, give us a wave” …… I wanted him to ….. to anger the hooded 17 year old nerds.

Do the faux DJ’s at Marseille or AEK games improvise with irony, sarcasm or off the cuff abuse?

 

[Mellotron]

Palace tried bringing in a Euro atmosphere and everyone laughs at them. It’s just not how we watch football.

The big things we have are humour and reaction. There’s no wit, no banter, no ebb and flow overseas. Just the same song droning on, uninterrupted even when they concede a goal. English crowds are usually reactive, and while this makes the base atmosphere worse, it allows room to build, room for a funny new song or witty comment about an opponent or referee.

This. I'd rather a game where the dynamics go up and down, even if the average noise level is lower, than just a constant meaningless drone for the entire game.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The OP question asks, "Why are English football grounds boring?"
Perhaps the truth is, the question should just be "Why are THE ENGLISH boring?"

Now, don't take this wrong - I don't think we are 'boring' - (nor a homogenous group) but as a whole, the English are far quieter, more reserved and dare I suggest, self-conscious than a lot of other peoples.

Yes, the Stade Velodrome is louder than the Emirates - but is it just a football thing?

The crowd / atmosphere at an IPL match is very, very different to that at Lords.
The crowd / atmosphere at the US Open is very different to that at Wimbledon.

For good or for bad (and in most scenarios, I suggest it is for good) we are not ones for making a show of ourselves.

 

[Guinness Boy]

A silly one that me laugh, in a mid 90’s Goldstone game against Plymouth was “You only sing when you’re fishing”, also p-takes about sheep when Cardiff or Swansea visited. The (harmless) chants to Hodgson were brilliant “Hodgson, Hodgson, give us a wave” …… I wanted him to ….. to anger the hooded 17 year old nerds.

Do the faux DJ’s at Marseille or AEK games improvise with irony, sarcasm or off the cuff abuse?

Directed at us, but when we went to Plymouth away any bad foul we did was greeted with 'you dirty northern B'stards'. We may have done similar to Watford.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The OP question asks, "Why are English football grounds boring?"
Perhaps the truth is, the question should just be "Why are THE ENGLISH boring?"

Now, don't take this wrong - I don't think we are 'boring' - (nor a homogenous group) but as a whole, the English are far quieter, more reserved and dare I suggest, self-conscious than a lot of other peoples.

Yes, the Stade Velodrome is louder than the Emirates - but is it just a football thing?

The crowd / atmosphere at an IPL match is very, very different to that at Lords.
The crowd / atmosphere at the US Open is very different to that at Wimbledon.

For good or for bad (and in most scenarios, I suggest it is for good) we are not ones for making a show of ourselves.

All true. However, when we do there's normally alcohol, singing and self deprecating humour involved. For example The Hollies stand at Edgbaston is different to both Lords AND the IPL and the Aussies simply can't compete with the Barmy Army on away Ashes tours.

 

[Mellotron]

The OP question asks, "Why are English football grounds boring?"
Perhaps the truth is, the question should just be "Why are THE ENGLISH boring?"

Now, don't take this wrong - I don't think we are 'boring' - (nor a homogenous group) but as a whole, the English are far quieter, more reserved and dare I suggest, self-conscious than a lot of other peoples.

Yes, the Stade Velodrome is louder than the Emirates - but is it just a football thing?

The crowd / atmosphere at an IPL match is very, very different to that at Lords.
The crowd / atmosphere at the US Open is very different to that at Wimbledon.

For good or for bad (and in most scenarios, I suggest it is for good) we are not ones for making a show of ourselves.

100% agree that the English must be among the most self-conscious nationalities. Who would score above us on this metric?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

100% agree that the English must be among the most self-conscious nationalities. Who would score above us on this metric?

The Japanese?

 

[Insel affe]

It's just noise though isn't it? Watching on the telly I thought they were largely bland atmospheres in Marseilles and Rome. Yes a lot of noise, an extreme amount of noise, and awe-inspiring to see at the start, but where was the connection with the game? Where was the ebb and flow and the crescendo as the home team attacked? Were there recognisable songs and chants? You couldn't hear the away fans at all, which seems to me to be lacking one of the key parts of a great atmosphere, the back and forth between rival supporters. Noise and pyro, fine, but an atmosphere is something to be savoured.

That's not saying that English atmospheres are generally much good in these days of all seater stadia, usually dull, but they can sometimes be amazing, and I'd take that anyday over the European version

I think this hit it on the head with a sledge hammer.

I much prefer the organic feel to the English crowd, there is also a lot of humour at an English game, some absolutely die laughing moments.
The regional chants and mickey taking are unique to us, last year a friend came with me to Southampton at home and he is a season ticket holder at Nantes and used to run with their ultras, he commented on how flat our crowd was at times, he acknowledged it was probably nerves due to the possibility of European football if we won, and said the sound does not travel well around our ground, but he loved the songs and chants, the gallows humour and general lack of aggression at the match, which he said is prevalent in the French league, where away fans are treated like scum or not even allowed to attend some games due to the violence.

I like many lived through being chased around back streets of grim northern towns, and dodgy side streets of London, with bricks and coins, racist chanting.

Give me what we have now any day.


The only thing I would change at the Amex is move the away fans, and look at the acoustics, to see if anything can be done to capture or throw the noise somehow.

 

[Surf's Up]

The OP asks "why are English football grounds boring?" and bemoans the absence of fireworks, flares, flags and standing. I wouldn't mind betting that Roma fans will stand for 95 minutes and will have a variety of flares, flags and fireworks to hand

 

[ozzygull]

What I find odd with the Amex is from my seat in WSU middle, I can hear the North stand and the Away stand both can be loud, but not all the time and sometimes seem very flat and quiet, like on Sunday. But when I watch DeZerbi cam or Pitch Side videos there seems to be a constant noise. I seem to remember Martin Perry saying when the stadium was built, any sound generated would be directed towards the pitch. Obviously, there are different levels of atmosphere, but I guess it does not matter if the South can't hear the North as long as the players hear it on the pitch.

I am really looking forward to tonight which is most likely our last European game for a while. I really hope we can get the place rocking.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Palace tried bringing in a Euro atmosphere and everyone laughs at them. It’s just not how we watch football.

The big things we have are humour and reaction. There’s no wit, no banter, no ebb and flow overseas. Just the same song droning on, uninterrupted even when they concede a goal. English crowds are usually reactive, and while this makes the base atmosphere worse, it allows room to build, room for a funny new song or witty comment about an opponent or referee.

I think it's two things. Firstly yes we are still paying the price for the mass hooliganism of the 70s and 80s. Hillsborough was a direct result of that. Yes I know there was no trouble on the day but even with incompetent policing and stewarding nobody would have died if they hadn't been fenced in - and the fences were built because of hooliganism. Even the Goldstone had them. The whole "Sit down, shut up and just enjoy the Match Day Experience (TM)" culture that we have in the UK is a direct result of that.

Secondly the mainland Europeans have always been a bit different. Back in the 70s everybody and his brother used to bring air horns to matches. You could always tell when a match was being played in 'Europe' because the only crowd noise you could hear was a constant drone of "Paaaaaarp!", it was like being stuck in an enormous, angry traffic jam. Which side where they supporting? You couldn't tell.

Even though I wish we weren't so timid ultimately I do prefer our organic way. Yes it does mean that a lot of (all?) English grounds these days aren't a patch on their continental cousins when it comes to sheer noise, and as we all know they can often be utter libraries. But if the atmosphere is dynamic then the flip side of it is when it is good it is absolutely electric.

Right @Brovion first, This was my first thought, Hillsborough, and what is written I agree with.

Secondly @Guinness Boy The reference to Palace, they had similar complaints and feedback regarding the lack of atmosphere at Selhurst twenty years ago subsequently that caused the formation of the Always Ultras, basically be careful what you wish for.

 

[Surf's Up]

I think this hit it on the head with a sledge hammer.

I much prefer the organic feel to the English crowd, there is also a lot of humour at an English game, some absolutely die laughing moments.
The regional chants and mickey taking are unique to us, last year a friend came with me to Southampton at home and he is a season ticket holder at Nantes and used to run with their ultras, he commented on how flat our crowd was at times, he acknowledged it was probably nerves due to the possibility of European football if we won, and said the sound does not travel well around our ground, but he loved the songs and chants, the gallows humour and general lack of aggression at the match, which he said is prevalent in the French league, where away fans are treated like scum or not even allowed to attend some games due to the violence.

I like many lived through being chased around back streets of grim northern towns, and dodgy side streets of London, with bricks and coins, racist chanting.

Give me what we have now any day.


The only thing I would change at the Amex is move the away fans, and look at the acoustics, to see if anything can be done to capture or throw the noise somehow.

Hmmmmm .... and there was me recalling (or mis-remembering?) that the Amex had supposedly been designed with superb acoustics that would intensify the crowd noise

 

[BBassic]

But when I watch DeZerbi cam or Pitch Side videos there seems to be a constant noise.

Not suggesting this is the case but there'll probably be pitchside mics involved which can be boosted when putting these videos together.

 

[Nicks]

I don't know who said in here the atmosphere at Marseille was "BLAND "!!!!
Obviously was watching it on TV.
That was one of the best atmospheres in a stadium I've experienced in a long long time.