Who will the next Tory leader

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Buzzer, You have shown yourself capable of scoring points of us lefties without the assistance of Toby Young. Don't lower yourself. Even if his invective seems to offer a cheap win, if you can see the obvious holes in it, someone else will.

Top quality post. Important point, too. And, boot on other foot, damn my eyes if I'm ever caught quoting David Aaronovich (he's a grat journalist but like all political journos they repackage information in pursuit of an agenda, and no matter how much I may agree with it, it is not source material).

Remember, [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION], mostly we know nothing. Yesterday's deeds mean little in relation to tomorrow's intentions. Plot Churchill on his last deeds and you plot wrong. Working out which politician to trust is a guessing game, informed by our prejudices. I quite like May and I deplore Corbyn, but I may well vote labour. What's that all about? Hope triumphing over experience I suspect. I like hope, though. Trumps hopeless.

Nighty night.

 

[Buzzer]

I remember having a previous discussion with you about this, having myself posted a piece of American research that found that people with lower IQs are more likely to be right wing. As part of our discussion, I admitted that I'd posted it provocatively and that the research was full of holes. I know from reading your other posts, that, whatever your politics, you are intelligent enough to know that the research quoted by Toby Young either suffers from similar gaping holes, or has been cherry picked for political point scoring. Having seen previous evidence of Young's partisan intellectual dishonesty, I suspect the latter.

Anyone with a smattering of education in the social sciences knows that IQ as a measure of intelligence is controversial, subject as it is to cultural bias. If we accept that Young never came across this whilst studying PPE at Oxford, we could probably assume that the son of Michael Young would have picked up some kind of notion of stuff that has been taught on A'level Sociology courses for half a century.

Without going full Ben Goldacre on Young's piece, I would just hope that that the research it is based on talks about the unreliability of IQ testing, the links between class, race, educational opportunity and voting preferences and gives good reason for the author choosing to discuss the mean average, rather than any of the other potential measures. If it doesn't, it's not worth the paper its written on. You know that, and I know that, and we both know that Toby Young knows that. It is measure of the man that, rather than have an honest discussion, he would choose to denigrate those who have not been as lucky with their life opportunities as he was. Something that I find particularly despicable from someone, who until his recent admission of failure, was portraying himself as some kind of champion for the educationally under-privileged, seemingly hiding his more likely personal motive of trying to ensure that his own children didn't have to go to school with any of them.

In typical fashion, Young also lets the mask slip, happy to describe those scoring lower on the IQ test as 'stupider', making a lie of the perverse narrative pedaled by the right that it is the left who are intellectual snobs looking down upon the working classes.

Buzzer, You have shown yourself capable of scoring points of us lefties without the assistance of Toby Young. Don't lower yourself. Even if his invective seems to offer a cheap win, if you can see the obvious holes in it, someone else will.

Yes, of course you're right there are glaring holes in the argument but I found it fun to rip the piss out of someone who goes around calling Tories thick yet has trouble spelling four-letter words and let's face it, he was never in a month of Sundays ever going to be able to come up with a counter-argument such as yours.

 

[Buzzer]

Of course it's true Labour hasn't had a woman leader...And currently 45% of Labour MPs are women, whereas only one in five Conservative MPs are female.

I don't think the number of MPs or (shadow) cabinet ministers is relevant. It's about the chance to reach the top. The fact that they have women-only shortlists for years yet remain the only major political party not to have elected a woman as leader (even UKIP managed it) rather suggests that for the moment there is a glass ceiling within the Labour Party.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I don't think the number of MPs or (shadow) cabinet ministers is relevant. It's about the chance to reach the top. The fact that they have women-only shortlists for years yet remain the only major political party not to have elected a woman as leader (even UKIP managed it) rather suggests that for the moment there is a glass ceiling within the Labour Party.

I agree, it's a big failing on behalf of the Labour Party. But I don't think there's any glass ceiling; it just hasn't happened yet but it will. More broadly, I don't think you should be so dismissive about the fact that nearly half of Labour MPs are now women. That's a positive thing, moving well in the right direction and to be welcomed. And you've been a little selective with what you've quoted of my reply to you Buzzer, omitting the point about Section 28 and the facts about Labour's former gay cabinet and shadow ministers. In the context of what we're talking about I'd say that's very relevant.

 

[Buzzer]

I agree, it's a big failing on behalf of the Labour Party. But I don't think there's any glass ceiling; it just hasn't happened yet but it will. More broadly, I don't think you should be so dismissive about the fact that nearly half of Labour MPs are now women. That's a positive thing, moving well in the right direction and to be welcomed. And you've been a little selective with what you've quoted of my reply to you Buzzer, omitting the point about Section 28 and the facts about Labour's former gay cabinet and shadow ministers. In the context of what we're talking about I'd say that's very relevant.

I can assure you I'm not dismissive of Clause 28. I left the party over that never to rejoin it and I won't be voting Tory all the while they have an alliance with the DUP.

 

[W.C.]

I'm usually with you on ad hominem attacks but I was at school with Toby Young and I know from personal experience that he is one of the vilest.

Did you get an invite to his Stag do?

 

[HH Brighton]

Yes, of course you're right there are glaring holes in the argument but I found it fun to rip the piss out of someone who goes around calling Tories thick yet has trouble spelling four-letter words and let's face it, he was never in a month of Sundays ever going to be able to come up with a counter-argument such as yours.

Calm yourself down matey, you seem to be getting all worked up over your original post. Loads of people in your position would have tried to google to get some ‘facts’ around this and its good you've admitted about the glaring wholes in the argument. You found Toby Youngs article and thought you had nailed it by passing it off as something you had read in the spectator you subscribe to. There’s no shame in this.

 

[Buzzer]

Calm yourself down matey, you seem to be getting all worked up over your original post. Loads of people in your position would have tried to google to get some ‘facts’ around this and its good you've admitted about the glaring wholes in the argument. You found Toby Youngs article and thought you had nailed it by passing it off as something you had read in the spectator you subscribe to. There’s no shame in this.

"Worked up...."

No-one is remotely worked up except for you when trying to spell four letters words. Sorry matey but your petard has been well and truly hoisted.

 

[Buzzer]

That's 'petard' by the way. It rhymes (sort of) with 'retard', a word that's quite pertinent here. Google it sometime.

 

[HH Brighton]

"Worked up...."

No-one is remotely worked up except for you when trying to spell four letters words. Sorry matey but your petard has been well and truly hoisted.

Relax, no-one likes being called out so publicly but it happens

 

[Gwylan]

I mentioned Emily Maitlis's speech last night on another thread but she spoke about the Tory leadership and was very disparaging about Boris, citing how many Tory MPs hated him. She also said that Macron and Merkel want to work with someone else as they can't take him seriously as a politician- a damning thing to say about a foreign secretary.

That's in line with other things I've heard: that Johnson is one of the most deeply disliked politicians within their own party. I really can't see him winning a leadership election

 

[CHAPPERS]

Rees-Mogg doing his chances all manner of harm this morning then, though he does suggest he's not up for it at the moment.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Rees-Mogg doing his chances all manner of harm this morning then, though he does suggest he's not up for it at the moment.

What's he been up to?

 

[CHAPPERS]

What's he been up to?

Abortion is wrong in all circumstances including rape, against gay marriage. You know, Catholicism.

 

[Ernest]

What's he been up to?

[tweet]905342951747936256[/tweet]

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

I don't agree with his views this morning, but I don't think any politician should be lambasted for saying what they believe in. It probably wont do his popularity any good, but at least he his speaking his mind.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Rees-Mogg doing his chances all manner of harm this morning then, though he does suggest he's not up for it at the moment.

I find him even more dislikable than May, which is quite an achievement.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Rees-Mogg doing his chances all manner of harm this morning then, though he does suggest he's not up for it at the moment.

I 10000000000000% disagree with his views, but at least he is honest and open about his faith and knows he's in a minority.

More of a man in being honest than Tony Blair ever was.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I 10000000000000% disagree with his views, but at least he is honest and open about his faith and knows he's in a minority.

More of a man in being honest than Tony Blair ever was.

I don't disgree with that. His views are abhorrent though.

 

[Brovion]

Rees-Mogg doing his chances all manner of harm this morning then, though he does suggest he's not up for it at the moment.

If the Tories want to go back to the 1930s then Rees-Mogg is the man. I cannot believe they are seriously considering him with his antediluvian attitudes. He makes Cameron and May look progressive and modern.