[Politics] Which gender do you most identify with?

[jcdenton08]

Something has only “gone wrong” if people can’t transition to a new identity. I can’t speak for gender or race but I certainly feel I was born in the wrong country. Thankfully I was able to do something about this. Others should also be able to.

Above all though, Sam Smith wanting to be a them doesn’t impact me one bit, so why should I worry?

Well it doesn’t infringe on your rights… until it does. Just one page back I was told I am not allowed to identify as a “Man” but just identify as a “cisgender man”. I don’t want to be a cisgender man because I don’t recognise it as existing.

 

[Mr Bridger]

What is a Man (Cis gender)?

I’m a man. Full stop. I don’t need any words after to qualify that.

I do wear women’s deodorant though.

I’m so confused.

You Sure about that

 

[Curious Orange]

Hands up if you can explain clearly more than 20% of the options? So many options makes it even more confusing for those who are already confused surely?

Personally don’t give a shit if someone wants to identify as a cat but yes, yes I do find it weird

If it was one of my kids then of course I would get more involved, but as things stand live and let live even if I don’t understand it. No reason for it to make me angry or annoyed or even bothered by it.

You could probably build a grid for the labels based on genetic sex (male/female), sexual orientation (hetro/homo/bi), and gender dysphoria (yes/no).

 

[Heart and Soul]

Something has only “gone wrong” if people can’t transition to a new identity. I can’t speak for gender or race but I certainly feel I was born in the wrong country. Thankfully I was able to do something about this. Others should also be able to.

Above all though, Sam Smith wanting to be a them doesn’t impact me one bit, so why should I worry?

These people often do not feel during the gender dysphoria and this is often not solved with the gender change. And If 2 in 10 people are going to want to have Gender-affirming surgery in the future, time and money will be spent on that. A lot also regret the decision. I think the underlying causes must be investigated.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Well it doesn’t infringe on your rights… until it does. Just one page back I was told I am not allowed to identify as a “Man” but just identify as a “cisgender man”. I don’t want to be a cisgender man because I don’t recognise it as existing.

"These days, if you say you're a man, you get arrested and thrown in jail"

 

[dsr-burnley]

A lot of the problem is that the transgender lobby has fooled itself by its own argument. They want someone with a penis to be called a woman if he/she wants, that's one thing. But then when they want that person to be treated as if they haven't a penis, and have female sexual organs, that's when it becomes a nonsense.

Regardless of what anyone may say to the contrary, there are still two sexes. They can argue that they shouldn't be called male and female (though I have never heard any alternative suggestions), but they can't rationally argue that two sexes exist as defined by chromosomes, sexual organs, etc. And the follow on from that is that some of the rules and conventions that apply to male-female in the traditional sense, do not apply to male-female in the new sense.

Which is why letting people with a Y chromosome run in women's races is a nonsense, because the split between men's and women's athletics is not a social construct, it's because having a Y chromosome gives such an advantage that women have to have their own sports. Similarly women's refuges, the issue that JK Rowling (not a member of the Christian right, incidentally) - if people without penises are for whatever reason so frightened of people with penises (who they may call "men") then why should they not be allowed men-free refuges?

And the other thing that is barely acknowledged is that if you allow people with penises to declare themselves women and give them all the rights of traditional women, then you at least need to consider whether some men would lie to get access to women's spaces. Rapists and molestors cannot be trusted to be honest.

 

[Jackthelad]

I hate the term Cis it sounds too much like a cyst. It makes me think of pus-filled spots. It's often said in a passive-aggressive manner as well.

 

[The Clamp]

So just ignore the bit in brackets, then – it's not for you

If I write 'Lewis Dunk (Brighton and Hove Albion captain) and Roberto de Zerbi (Brighton and Hove Albion manager)...' as Albion fans, we almost certainly shouldn't need the qualification in brackets (parentheses*), but they are there for wider audiences who might not be familiar with who they are. There's no difference here in GENDERGATE, apart from people who are seemingly easily outraged (often over nothing) being outraged

(*see what I did there?)

I’m certainly not outraged. I find it all rather silly and amusing.

As far as a “wider audience” goes, who cares whether they understand what I identify as?

Why should a man who identifies as a man from birth be differentiated from a woman who has transitioned into a man?

If someone says they’re a man, why have brackets and initials depicting the timeline of their genitals?

I don’t need to know the history of your bangers and mash. You say you’re a man, fine. You’re a man. Can we move onto something more interesting?

You see? Labelling, categorising, indexing and highlighting isn’t always the cure-all it might first appear to be.

 

[The Clamp]

The thought process of some objectors has to be considered to really understand where they are coming from. The argument seems to be:

You cannot be any gender other than male or female because the existence of other gender brain patterns is not supported by evidential proof.
I am angry about you doing this because it conflicts with my belief system which is based on religious faith that is not supported by evidential proof.

Just to clarify;

Believing there to be only two genders, male and female, pre-dates religious faith by quite some time.

 

[Stato]

Well it doesn’t infringe on your rights… until it does. Just one page back I was told I am not allowed to identify as a “Man” but just identify as a “cisgender man”. I don’t want to be a cisgender man because I don’t recognise it as existing.

I don't think that your rights are defined by what someone on an internet forum tells you. I think they're more defined by international and national legislation. You have the right to call yourself a 'man' rather than a 'cisgender man'. Equally a man who is trans has the right to call himself a 'man' and leave off his qualifier too.

I think that the introduction of a qualifying description for both sides was just intended to avoid the two categories becoming 'man/woman' and 'trans-man/woman', as this has the risk of not stating clearly that anyone in the latter category is also in the former. Adding the descriptor 'Cis' does not remove anybody from the group 'man' or 'woman', it just adds another descriptor. People enraged by the use of the term 'cis' just seem to be shaking angry fists at Venn diagrams

 

[Stato]

Just to clarify;

Believing there to be only two genders, male and female, pre-dates religious faith by quite some time.

That's not relevant to my point. I'm just suggesting that it's ironic that one unproven assumption is motivating the dismissal of another unproven assumption whilst utilising the argument that it should be dismissed because it lacks proof.

 

[Brok]

I identify myself as guitar. I must be a transFender.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well it doesn’t infringe on your rights… until it does. Just one page back I was told I am not allowed to identify as a “Man” but just identify as a “cisgender man”. I don’t want to be a cisgender man because I don’t recognise it as existing.

I think you're dwelling on this too much.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"These days, if you say you're a man, you get arrested and thrown in jail"

...just for saying you're a man?

 

[The Clamp]

That's not relevant to my point. I'm just suggesting that it's ironic that one unproven assumption is motivating the dismissal of another unproven assumption whilst utilising the argument that it should be dismissed because it lacks proof.

Ah well, I’ve lost track of your point somehow then.

Couldn’t care less what people want to call themselves. I’m too long in the tooth to worry about other people’s business .

I simply ask that people don’t refer to me as Male (Cis gender ) just because it happens to fit into their new index of genders.

I don’t identify as Male (Cis gender) and don’t wish to be called such.

Thanks.

 

[The Clamp]

...just for saying you're a man?

Well, unless you have a vagina

 

[Crawley Dingo]

there is a difference between sex and gender- its not dangerous nonsense. Do I fully understand it-not particularly but that doesnt make it nonsense. What is dangerous is dismissing something as nonsense something that causes real distress and problems for a minority of people. Imagine a child of yours who was not CIS gender and really struggling to understand what was happening, and your advice was its all nonsense?

Do some people "play up" and use it for effect-and maybe sell records? probably, but that doesnt make those who are genuinely affected any less valid and they require understanding, not being dismissed as nonsense

its nonsense because its a belief system and not science, its roots are neo-marxist.
It confuses people and encourages children to become inward looking and narcissistic rather than outward looking. This is before you get to de-transitioners.

As for your fictional example, any slither of genuine people who are in a state of confusion can be delt with by Outreach services without having this made up garbage foisted on impressionable children.

 

[Mackenzie]

Pan gender…..I always do the washing up.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I’m certainly not outraged. I find it all rather silly and amusing.

As far as a “wider audience” goes, who cares whether they understand what I identify as?

Why should a man who identifies as a man from birth be differentiated from a woman who has transitioned into a man?

If someone says they’re a man, why have brackets and initials depicting the timeline of their genitals?

I don’t need to know the history of your bangers and mash. You say you’re a man, fine. You’re a man. Can we move onto something more interesting?

You see? Labelling, categorising, indexing and highlighting isn’t always the cure-all it might first appear to be.

No-one does. Well, some people probably do (not you, but other people who might not identify in an 'acceptable' way), because then, if they don't accept/understand the reasoning behind it, they can pick holes/make fun/be INCANDESCENT WITH RAGE about it!

My point is that the explanation (or alternative) is there for people who want or need it. You don't, you know what you are and no-one else is fussed about what you call yourself. But to some people in today's society a 'man' is a 'cis male' – that's all it is...

I feel that some people are reading too much into this whole gender discussion. But well done to the OP for giving us yet another left-field topic to chat about while we wait for a player to be SINGED or SOULED

 

[sydney]

in 20 years we will have a load of head f***ed spangletwatts not knowing wether they are Kanye or Karen , Derek or Debbie or indeed Sertash or Shimimani , such a f***ing pointless area of niche politics.