[Albion] Where is Moises going? (Chelsea - 14/08/2023)

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Are Brighton fans and Chelsea fans having a battle this summer to see who can be the most offended about transfer bids for their players?!

Very amusing watching all of this pearl-clutching from both sides.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

How DARE they only offer us the 20th highest PL transfer fee of all time. Do they not know who we are? We had Phil Stant

 

[American Seagle]

It does answer the question for me. Football club owners absolutely are worried about profit and loss. As you say yourself, a player is worth what others are willing to pay, which clearly isn’t £100m+. Ultimately we have to be realistic. It won’t be long before Caicedo starts his strop and you have ask how that will benefit the club. When the club reminds itself that Moises cost us 3m, it’s much easier to reconcile itself to gaining 'only' 87m gross profit than 97m. I admire Bloom obviously but he also knows he’s playing a risky game especially if, as has been reported, Caicedo's people are starting to leak stories to the press about Moises being ‘disrespected'.

This is going to get messy very quickly IMO.

Why would he get annoyed at us? The only party "disrespecting" him would be Chelsea. They value him less then Rice and we are valuing him higher or equal to Rice. Who would you rather work for: a company that value you as one of the best or a company that see you as a little above average?

 

[WhingForPresident]

I'd love to snap that Jacobs twat's jaw. What an insufferable prick.

 

[Oh_aye]

Understand that sources in the Jacobs camp are frustrated at the lack of opportunities for real life human ladies to touch his willy.

Point will be reiterated at home later tonight alone. With tears, and serious questions asked about life choices and status. This one could run and run.

 

[raymondo]

As some Chelsea fella said on Twitter, which I saw a moment ago: 'Brighton obviously want the £80-100m so we either pay earlier or drag it till the deadline day and still pay their asking price like Enzo’s deal.'

Caicedo can feel as 'disrespected'* as much as he wants by Brighton, but surely the club he wants to move to not paying what his current employer (and many other 'experts' in the game) think he's worth is even MORE 'disrespectful', no?

*I don't for one second believe he actually feels disrespected. He just wants his big-money move, as do the agents because then they get a nice big chunk of cash too.

Yes, 'no' is the answer, no? You know what I mean, yes?! (aka I agree )

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are Brighton fans and Chelsea fans having a battle this summer to see who can be the most offended about transfer bids for their players?!

Very amusing watching all of this pearl-clutching from both sides.

Are Brighton fans offended? From what I read, we're quite ambivalent about the bids coming in, because we know they're going to be rejected (or most of us do).

 

[Triggaaar]

"unless we're trying to offload (which obviously we're not)" - in reality I think we are (trying to offload). Sure we'd like a player of his quality to stick around for as long as possible, but I think there's acceptance - which started with RDZ saying he deserved to play at a higher level - that he's going to go this summer, so we want that to happen as smoothly as possible.

Yes we'd like it to happen smoothly, if our valuation is met, but if it's not, surely we'll want to hold on to him? I thought the acceptance that he'd leave was because we assumed someone would pay a fair price for him.

"I'm sure several other clubs would like him" - are there any? There's seemingly no-one trying to get him beyond Chelsea right now. Lots of clubs would like a Moises Caicedo, of course, but it seems there currently aren't any who are willing to engage at his selling price.

Well that was my point - they're not interested at our price, but if we'd said to him to go and find a club and agree personal terms, then we could be facing low ball offers from Liverpool or Newcastle at the moment.

But, going back to my point, it seems highly likely for there to have been contact and discussions between Caicedo's representatives and Chelsea already, and I'm sure that has the Albion's blessing or approval to some degree. We know Barber and Bloom always seek to do things in the right way, and I can't see them pursuing Chelsea for tapping up one of our players "illegally".

There's a difference between pursuing them for breaking the rules, and giving their blessing. You might be right, but my guess is that they're accepting of the way it works, rather than encouraged Caicedo to find a club. Obviously I'm just guessing.

 

[Mellotron]

I'm enjoying the annoyance at someone coming in with a lower first offer.

You lot would be RUBBISH at buying houses.

I agree in principle, but not with the specifics here.

Arsenal had £70m turned down in January - since then we have given him a new contract, he's had another half a season proving himself, and we finished 6th, and so can offer European football.

The housing equivalent would be hearing someone else had £250,000 turned down 6 months ago, and the house has had extensive renovations done to improve it in the meantime, so you decide today to offer - £250,000.

It's a laughably silly offer, even within the world of brinkmanship that negotiating involves.

 

[SAC]

Why would he get annoyed at us? The only party "disrespecting" him would be Chelsea. They value him less then Rice and we are valuing him higher or equal to Rice. Who would you rather work for: a company that value you as one of the best or a company that see you as a little above average?

I suspect that he could get annoyed as if he worth the same as Rice, he would expect to be paid the something similar. Rice is reportedly being paid £250k a week.

Who would he rather work for, a club paying him £60k a week or one that could pay him £180k a week or more?

 

[American Seagle]

I suspect that he could get annoyed as if he worth the same as Rice, he would expect to be paid the something similar. Rice is reportedly being paid £250k a week.

Who would he rather work for, a club paying him £60k a week or one that could pay him £180k a week or more?

The key word there is "reportedly".

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Why do none of these tools understand that we're very happy to keep him?

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

This is all turning rather peculiar.

Why would Bloom accept £70m now when rejected in January and MC signed a new contract?
Why is Winstanly not telling them that Bloom won’t accept ridiculous bids below what he deems acceptable?

If Chelsea seriously want this deal, inside knowledge of how Bloom and PBOBE operate and negotiate (from Winstanly) should mean it is easy for them. They either think he’s worth it and bid the right price or they don’t and move on.

As for MC, unless he was told “sign the new contract you can 100% leave in the summer regardless of fee” then I don’t see what he has to throw his toys about for? If he definitely wanted to move this summer, why sign the new contract? I suspect that means that he would like to move but is equally happy staying if he can’t.

I imagine Winstanley on a personal level is absolutely shitting it as he was brought in to control these sort of disputes and get maximum value for “chels”

He’s up against the men that would have taught him how to negotiate and probably doesn’t want to go running back to “The Todd” with a loss.

The fact Chelsea have paid us handsomely for Winbarely is equally glorious (I hope there are no add ons)

 

[Peter Grummit]

I suspect that he could get annoyed as if he worth the same as Rice, he would expect to be paid the something similar. Rice is reportedly being paid £250k a week.

Who would he rather work for, a club paying him £60k a week or one that could pay him £180k a week or more?

If you take a look at the reported Chelsea wage structure, you'd conclude he's been offered somewhere in the region of 200k per week. Say 5 years, that's 50m gross. https://www.spotrac.com/epl/chelsea-fc/payroll/

I reckon the most we could offer him without blowing our wage structure is around 110k. The Europe thing is tiny in comparison, in my view. At least he was honest in Jan and said he wanted it for the money. Take no notice of the recent statements about Beautiful London, Beautiful Chelsea blah blah. Money alone talks.

I'd love to hang on to him, but I can't see it happening.

I reckon we'll get 85m.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Are Brighton fans and Chelsea fans having a battle this summer to see who can be the most offended about transfer bids for their players?!

Very amusing watching all of this pearl-clutching from both sides.

I couldn't give a shit about the transfer fee - it's not my money and has very close to zero impact on my life. But, from a transactional point of view, I find it hilarious and baffling that buyers don't get their acts together and pay what (or close to what) the seller is asking.

Do they know the cost? Almost certainly.
Can they afford it? Of course they can.
Why are they trying to get a ludicrous and unrealistic discount? No idea.
Will they end up paying what the seller is asking? Again, almost certainly.

The phrase 'shit or get off the pot' comes to mind...

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I agree in principle, but not with the specifics here.

Arsenal had £70m turned down in January - since then we have given him a new contract, he's had another half a season proving himself, and we finished 6th, and so can offer European football.

The housing equivalent would be hearing someone else had £250,000 turned down 6 months ago, and the house has had extensive renovations done to improve it in the meantime, so you decide today to offer - £250,000.

It's a laughably silly offer, even within the world of brinkmanship that negotiating involves.

I'm not so sure on this one, which takes a lot as I find I agree with 99.67% of your posts.

Offers were made in January and we rejected them as I believe (I may be wrong) that the club saw potential Europa League football on the line and placed the achievement of that above the sale of a pivotal player. Let's not kid ourselves, the offers Arsenal were making in January were VERY high offers for a player who had at that time played very few PL games etc. I don't think we were knocking back their offers as being ridiculous/nowhere near what we thought he was worth, more of a "we are not selling at this time, with the positon we are in"

The player is obviously now a better one than 6 months ago and on paper is worth more, but RDZ's comments etc have made it quite clear we are realistic that he is likely to go. I imagine 85-90m may do it but I have no idea.

If I was Chelsea I would have come in at the figure they have, knowing full well it will be rejected but I don't think it's remotely insulting etc. It's SEVENTY MILLION pounds and will start a positive discussion. As the buying club I would have cited RDZ's comments as meaning Albion were accepting he was off this summer, compared to January and were just waiting for sensible offers to come in. Meeting the fees offered in January can be mitigated by the bidding club quite easily, even if all parties know it won't be the figure needed.

Yes, we will only sell when the figure is met, but the noises made are that we are open to the sale. We haven't come out fighting saying "he is not for sale and it'd going to take a PL record to secure him this summer". I don't blame RDZ for those comments. I liked the honesty over Mac Allister and Caicedo. But I'm just curious what people would expect us to bid on a FIRST offer if we were the Chelsea here.

If I take a step back, take off my brighton specs, and observed this as a neutral, I wouldn't see 'chelsea bid 70m' come up on Sky Sports and say "That's a disgrace"

Ultimately we're debating what figure should Chelsea have bid to be rejected as only a madman would offer an acceptable fee on the first go.

 

[Bozza]

£70m was never going to be accepted, clearly, but I wouldn't be using January's rejection of the same fee as evidence of that.

The January market is different to the summer market. Clubs are looking to buy with a degree of desperation, either to save a season or in the Arsenal/Caicedo scenario to push on from a good first half of the campaign. Regardless, January transfers generally only happen for a premium.

And for all the derision on here, Chelsea have shown some understanding of Albion's position in offering £70m up-front, ie none of that is performance related.

For me at least, it still feels pretty certain that some middle-ground will be found sooner or later.

 

[Icy Gull]

£70m was never going to be accepted, clearly, but I wouldn't be using January's rejection of the same fee as evidence of that.

The January market is different to the summer market. Clubs are looking to buy with a degree of desperation, either to save a season or in the Arsenal/Caicedo scenario to push on from a good first half of the campaign. Regardless, January transfers generally only happen for a premium.

And for all the derision on here , Chelsea have showed some understanding of Albion's position in offering £70m up-front, ie none of that is performance related.

For me at least, it still feels pretty certain that some middle-ground will be found sooner or later.

Don’t disagree but I feel we are pushing very hard for a Colwill deal to be part of whatever final figure is agreed on. Chelsea will be very reluctant to go back on “not for sale”, understandably given how they have had their trousers pulled down by the Albion over the last year.

 

[Simster]

I think he is a better player than Declan Rice, but I also think we won't get the same money. A middle ground will need to be found: something like £85m+£5m addons. If Chelsea won't pay that then he'll stay here.

I still think the chance of him staying is hovering around 50% and that the odds do not reflect the reality.

As for their opening bid, I know it's all a game at this stage but IMO it was a complete waste of time. A follow-up bid of £77m or so would mean the serious negotiations have started and only if they do that in the new few days will I resign myself to him leaving.

 

[Weststander]

Are Brighton fans offended? From what I read, we're quite ambivalent about the bids coming in, because we know they're going to be rejected (or most of us do).

This.

Relaxed in the knowledge that Caicedo has a long contract, meaning TB will only sell when his huge valuation is met.