That title belongs to Cameron, surely?
[Politics] Where is Corbyn ?
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That title belongs to Cameron, surely?
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,262
I think May's Withdrawal Agreement WILL be defeated and so if Parliament is going to make a decent fist of indicative votes that lead to a majority then the best thing that could happen would be for both leaders - May AND Corbyn - to resign and let the deputies David Lidington and Tom Watson lead that process, being unencumbered by the 3 years of baggage that is killing free debate.
Lidington should have nothing to fear from the ERG - his brief would be short and to the point - to get enough of his party to support whatever is deemed most popular through the indicative votes.
Whilst revoking Article 50 will have to be debated I think Norway Plus could get a majority in the HoC - it's not perfect but we would leave the EU, sort the Northern Ireland border problem, have a customs union arrangement with the EU, have the ability to make our own trade deals and preserve goodwill with our European partners,which seem to cover the most important aspects.
Lidington should have nothing to fear from the ERG - his brief would be short and to the point - to get enough of his party to support whatever is deemed most popular through the indicative votes.
Whilst revoking Article 50 will have to be debated I think Norway Plus could get a majority in the HoC - it's not perfect but we would leave the EU, sort the Northern Ireland border problem, have a customs union arrangement with the EU, have the ability to make our own trade deals and preserve goodwill with our European partners,which seem to cover the most important aspects.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
Or maybe he's trying to broker a deal for generations going forward who will be affected by this mess, rather than one being generated by self serving politicians trying to save face and limp over the line!
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
A government that cannot pass its own motions and policies isn't really a government.
Seeing as this thread was started at 1.54 am, in bed if he has any sense.
Gritt23
New member
Maybe he is stranded on a post, like the "Post Turtle" he is .....
Urban Dictionary, for those who may not know.
"When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle. You know he didn't get there by himself, he doesn't belong there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, and you just want to help the poor stupid guy get down."
Sadly, he is far from the only person in Westminster who fits that description, and therein lies our problem.
Urban Dictionary, for those who may not know.
"When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle. You know he didn't get there by himself, he doesn't belong there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, and you just want to help the poor stupid guy get down."
Sadly, he is far from the only person in Westminster who fits that description, and therein lies our problem.
melias shoes
Well-known member
- Oct 14, 2010
- 4,830
It's Self serving politicians that want to keep us in the EU.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
So not the ones trying to save their political careers then, with half baked proposals.
Corbyn has every right to be there, as like it or not it is likely to be a Labour government that will be left to deal with this Tory generated mess! That's if anyone bothers to vote at the next General Election, seeing as how the democratic process has been run rough-shod over with the referendum.
melias shoes
Well-known member
- Oct 14, 2010
- 4,830
Tell me who it is that have rode shod over the democratic process since the referendum ? I could tell you but I bet we don't agree.
As for labour being the next government. I wouldn't be to sure about that.
HH Brighton
Well-known member
- Jul 25, 2003
- 1,576
Congratulations, you win idiot of the day.
He's in Brussels talking to people and for a resolution but that don't let that get in the way of your opinion of him.
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't he lobbying the Eurocrats for something they have said 85 times they will not budge on?
I have no idea, can't listen to him mumbling.
surely he is still sitting on his hands .... after all whether he likes it or not he still has to sign the exact same declaration if he was PM .... if he wants to know the future arrangements he has to sign the current declaration before the EU will discuss the future
In Ireland to sympathise with the dead IRA members relatives?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
that would certainly be a plan, but Corbyn never put his name to or said "Norway plus" has he? its always this specific wording of "a" customs union, meaning one different to "the" customs union that is currently in force. is Norway plus really leaving anyway? etc.
because thats "cherry picking", they said early on this wasnt option, but dont speak to it as obviously is not government policy. it probably is the easiest way to deal with GFA if its "the" customs union. more informed commentators than i said its not a viable policy.
on reflection, it may be where we end up with EU determining how are future relationship is structured if the current deal fails to pass.
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I think you misunderstand then. Cherry picking referred to the idea of staying inside the customs union and single market, but not having to adhere to the four pillars including free movement of people. I'm happy to stand corrected if you can show me a quote that suggests staying in the customs union is a non-starter?
In any case, this article suggests they're positively seeking it:
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-wants-permanent-post-brexit-customs-union/
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
So JC supposedly wants a permanent customs union. That common market 2 sites' first bulletpoint says "the Uk accepts the current draft Withdrawal Agreement but renegotiates the political declaration....". The article linked to by [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] suggests that the current WA sets a precendent for the future arrangements for a permanent customs union.
Makes you wonder why he is voting against the current Withdrawal Agreement.
Makes you wonder why he is voting against the current Withdrawal Agreement.
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beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
you are right that we can stay in the customs union. the point, a very fine and pedantic point, is the Labour policy states "a" customs union, i.e a customs agreement other than the current arrangment. and if we want to say this just sematics, the question raised is how is that leaving, is the policy is to say they we are leaving while not really in any meaningful way. pull the wool over eyes of many millions long enough. same as the other lot of course, no ones come out of this with credibility.
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A May deal supporting Labour MP John Mann ( ? ) has just the second come off 5 Live.
After the initial discussion Tony Livesey rather pointlessly tried to get the MP to call Corbyn delusional.
Once that finally subsided it because clear the MP in question was really struggling to say what Corbyn actually stood for.
What chance do the rest of us have?
After the initial discussion Tony Livesey rather pointlessly tried to get the MP to call Corbyn delusional.
Once that finally subsided it because clear the MP in question was really struggling to say what Corbyn actually stood for.
What chance do the rest of us have?
I'm 60. I know I don't have effective leadership qualities. This is despite my having lots of good insight and nous. I do a bit of leading, but I can do most of this online (scientific peer review and science journal editing) where, provided I do not hit instant 'reply' I have a safe environment to elaborate a measured response. Like what I do on NSC*.
Corbyn is much older than even me and should by now realise he does not have the skills to lead. The fact that he doesn't realise this sums him up for me.
*In your dreams. If you can't send an instant reaction reply on NSC in all it's flawed and laughable glory, NSC is pointless. Now **** off.
He's had 3 years to nail his colours to a mast and stand next too it.
Had he done so, whether I agreed with him or not, I'd certainly have respect for him and his principles.
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