[Albion] What was the worst ref decision today?

[pb21]

Maccalister I think was handball

All you can tell from that image/still is that his arm was relatively near the ball, but almost certainly not touching it.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Maccalister I think was handball

As clear as mud that photo

 

[kevo]

Yes I agree the clear foul on March. Not been mentioned much but was in the box and looked like a clear foul. The other one you mention was also March and again a clear push and foul although March slowed to draw the foul when I think he should have made tracks towards the goal.

Yes admittedly he did seem to draw it a bit, but it was still a foul.

If you add that March pen appeal, which Attwell waved away, that's argubaly four pens we could have had. I also remember another one involving Mitoma, which he appealed for (similar position to the March one, but on the other side).

So I make that five penalty appeals, three of which were very strong bordering on stonewall, turned down. Plus two disallowed goals. The Mitoma one clearly wasn't handball and the Ali Mac one highly debatable (where is the evidence it hit his arm? The goal was initially given, so the error had to be 'clear and obvious').

Yes, I'm still fuming...

 

[Berty23]

Good for the club releasing the video of contentious calls. Does this suggest they are not going to let it lie?

 

[Sirnormangall]

Apologies if it’s already been said, but the ref’s worst decision surely was deciding to get out of bed and go to the match

 

[Triggaaar]

Maccalister I think was handball

I think it wasn't. We're not sure though, so it obviously wasn't a clear and obvious error, so the decision stays with the on-field decision.

 

[Triggaaar]

• Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident

There's no video footage that shows the ball definitely hit his arm, so it's clearly the incorrect decision.

I'm probably wasting my time writing this, and likely to get shouted down by people, but I think we need to not muddy the water between unpopular, but arguable subjective decisions, and actual wrong decisions.

You're missing your own advice - while it's an arguable call as to whether MacAllister's arm touches it, the decision isn't arguable, because you don't overrule an on-field decision unless it's clear and obvious.

There are enough actual errors being made to our detriment that we don't need to inflate the list.

I agree, and we're not.

 

[Triggaaar]

• Lenglet handball non-penalty - I've not seen this one, but can appreciate that there is a degree of subjectivity to intent, natural position of the arm, etc. so not ready to chalk this up as an error until I see it.

Please go and see it. I do not think he intends to touch the ball with his hand/arm, but his arm is in a very unnatural position (he's trying to grapple) and he touches the ball, so it's a very clear penalty.

 

[Affy]

Clearly worst decision was getting out of bed Saturday morning. Maybe he won’t have to any longer, not that that helps us of course.

 

[mikeyjh]

• Alexis/Welbeck goal disallowed - correct decision within the law. Just because 'you' as a brighton fan think the footage is inconclusive, doesn't mean the officials can't be confident
• Lenglet handball non-penalty - I've not seen this one, but can appreciate that there is a degree of subjectivity to intent, natural position of the arm, etc. so not ready to chalk this up as an error until I see it.
• Peresic booking not being a red - Not convinced this was enough to be so obvious a red that it is an error not to give it. I think we would have plenty of people on here arguing against a red to one of our players for an identical challenge.

There are some decisions where it is simply subjectivity, and that the decision made, while not the one we would make, not the one the group of ex-pros in the TV studio would make, but most referees can understand why the ref made that call (even if they might not make it themselves).

I'm probably wasting my time writing this, and likely to get shouted down by people, but I think we need to not muddy the water between unpopular, but arguable subjective decisions, and actual wrong decisions.

If we include the subjetive calls lots of other clubs will dismiss our complaints because they will all have similar lists, officials will dismiss our claims of victimhood, or conspiracy or incompetence when they can explain away so many of ou complaints.

There are enough actual errors being made to our detriment that we don't need to inflate the list.

Sitting on the sidelines, this is what I think has happened - I actually read comments on here before I saw the highlights so was expecting something outrageous! It won't win me any friends I'm sure but I don't understand the furore about the disallowed goals. The first was really hard to see so therefore decision stayed although instinctively it looked hand ball to me. The second looks clear as day, the ball goes downhill off him, I honestly don't get the fuss.....

 

[Gwylan]

If you add that March pen appeal, which Attwell waved away, that's argubaly four pens we could have had. I also remember another one involving Mitoma, which he appealed for (similar position to the March one, but on the other side).

That was very close to me and that one clearly wasn't a penalty, March had lost his balance and was going down anyway. That's not to negate the two that we definitely should have got and a third that we could have done.

 

[Falmer Flutter ©]

Sitting on the sidelines, this is what I think has happened - I actually read comments on here before I saw the highlights so was expecting something outrageous! It won't win me any friends I'm sure but I don't understand the furore about the disallowed goals. The first was really hard to see so therefore decision stayed although instinctively it looked hand ball to me. The second looks clear as day, the ball goes downhill off him, I honestly don't get the fuss.....

Well feel free to share this clear as day video showing this happening. The only thing that is 100% is that the ball initially flicks Mac's hip. Any supposed handball after that is irrelevant if there isn't any clear video showing this. I've yet to see anything that should have led VAR to overturn the on-field decision.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Please go and see it. I do not think he intends to touch the ball with his hand/arm, but his arm is in a very unnatural position (he's trying to grapple) and he touches the ball, so it's a very clear penalty.

Yes. Was going to post something similar. He knocks the ball away from Veltman with an outstretched hand. Nailed on penalty, 100%. If only the ref had been asked to view the incident on the screen afterwards, he would not have been able to avoid giving a penalty.

 

[kevo]

Yes. Was going to post something similar. He knocks the ball away from Veltman with an outstretched hand. Nailed on penalty, 100%. If only the ref had been asked to view the incident on the screen afterwards, he would not have been able to avoid giving a penalty.

It's quite astonishing given the number of controversial / marginal decisions that Attwell wasn't once referred to look at the monitor.

It's the VAR ref Micharl Salisbury that needs investigating more than Attwell (who was also hopeless).

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Can I say thank you to @Bozza for shutting down threads and removing posts with some of the most bizarre conspiracy theories and accusations I have ever seen. It is time we got back to sensible debate on NSC.
Just as a matter of interest, who was it who suggested that @Bozza had been paid off by the Asian Betting Syndicates to stifle the debate on here?

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Yes admittedly he did seem to draw it a bit, but it was still a foul.

If you add that March pen appeal, which Attwell waved away, that's argubaly four pens we could have had. I also remember another one involving Mitoma, which he appealed for (similar position to the March one, but on the other side).

So I make that five penalty appeals, three of which were very strong bordering on stonewall, turned down. Plus two disallowed goals. The Mitoma one clearly wasn't handball and the Ali Mac one highly debatable (where is the evidence it hit his arm? The goal was initially given, so the error had to be 'clear and obvious').

Yes, I'm still fuming...

For the March incident (if it was the one near the end of the game), the contact was outside the box. But it was a free kick, which the ref didn't give.

 

[METALMICKY]

It's amazing how many Albion fans don't seem to understand the furore about the Ali Macc handball. The officials simply didn't follow their own protocol. If the onfield decision is goal then there has to be conclusive evidence that ball hit hand and therefore it's a clear and obvious error and should we wiped off. As most people have noted virtually every camera angle shows it hitting his hip. I've only seen one angle from behind the goal that shows that conceivably it brushed his arm too. It's far from conclusive so on that basis they must stick with onfield decision.

 

[dazzer6666]

It's amazing how many Albion fans don't seem to understand the furore about the Ali Macc handball. The officials simply didn't follow their own protocol. If the onfield decision is goal then there has to be conclusive evidence that ball hit hand and therefore it's a clear and obvious error and should we wiped off. As most people have noted virtually every camera angle shows it hitting his hip. I've only seen one angle from behind the goal that shows that conceivably it brushed his arm too. It's far from conclusive so on that basis they must stick with onfield decision.

This……..goal should have stood (and using the same principles, the Mitoma goal was rightly disallowed).

 

[Hugo Rune]

It's amazing how many Albion fans don't seem to understand the furore about the Ali Macc handball. The officials simply didn't follow their own protocol. If the onfield decision is goal then there has to be conclusive evidence that ball hit hand and therefore it's a clear and obvious error and should we wiped off. As most people have noted virtually every camera angle shows it hitting his hip. I've only seen one angle from behind the goal that shows that conceivably it brushed his arm too. It's far from conclusive so on that basis they must stick with onfield decision.

VAR had it both ways with the two disallowed goals; Incredibly frustrating. I can just about take the Mitoma one because the evidence to overturn the decision is not clear and obvious enough (although I don’t think Spurs would have complained much had it been given).

But the Alimac flick needed CLEAR & OBVIOUS evidence to scrub. There was none.

So, it should have been 2-2 plus 3 huge penalty shouts.

 

[dazzer6666]

VAR had it both ways with the two disallowed goals; Incredibly frustrating. I can just about take the Mitoma one because the evidence to overturn the decision is not clear and obvious enough (although I don’t think Spurs would have complained much had it been given).

But the Alimac flick needed CLEAR & OBVIOUS evidence to scrub. There was none.

So, it should have been 2-2 plus 3 huge penalty shouts.

Think the Mitoma decision was correct (and even if not, wasn’t a clear and obvious error) - so yep, one goal incorrectly disallowed and 3 penalty shouts.