What price our freedom?

[Yossarian]

First up, the cold blooded murder of Lee Rigby was obviously a sickening, unjustifiable act of barbarism. However, as the dust settles, what price do we place on our freedom and liberties? With the Home Sec now claiming cross-party support and pressing for the introduction of the previously ditched 'Snoopers Bill', a sharp rise in attacks on the Muslim community, and unprecedented support for the openly racist English Defence League, we are entering dangerous waters, where (in my opinion) the murder of a soldier by two unhinged individuals is being used by those with ulterior motives for their own political agendas, agendas that may have far reaching consequences for us all.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

First up, the cold blooded murder of Lee Rigby was obviously a sickening, unjustifiable act of barbarism. However, as the dust settles, what price do we place on our freedom and liberties? With the Home Sec now claiming cross-party support and pressing for the introduction of the previously ditched 'Snoopers Bill', a sharp rise in attacks on the Muslim community, and unprecedented support for the openly racist English Defence League, we are entering dangerous waters, where (in my opinion) the murder of a soldier by two unhinged individuals is being used by those with ulterior motives for their own political agendas, agendas that may have far reaching consequences for us all.

Yep.

 

[Napper]

The media have been pushing the immigration issue for yonks now anyway. Its partly down to them parties like the EDL and UKIP are thriving.

 

[bWize]

First up, the cold blooded murder of Lee Rigby was obviously a sickening, unjustifiable act of barbarism. However, as the dust settles, what price do we place on our freedom and liberties? With the Home Sec now claiming cross-party support and pressing for the introduction of the previously ditched 'Snoopers Bill', a sharp rise in attacks on the Muslim community, and unprecedented support for the openly racist English Defence League, we are entering dangerous waters, where (in my opinion) the murder of a soldier by two unhinged individuals is being used by those with ulterior motives for their own political agendas, agendas that may have far reaching consequences for us all.

There have been a few of these kind of 'events' recently that seem to be pointing towards the same political agenda. I don't usually buy into too many conspiracy theories, but there is an undercurrent of something weird going on. First Boston in America, then shortly after here... Both essentially pointing to the same thing and getting the general public in a bit of a tiz...

 

[pork pie]

First up, the cold blooded murder of Lee Rigby was obviously a sickening, unjustifiable act of barbarism. However, as the dust settles, what price do we place on our freedom and liberties? With the Home Sec now claiming cross-party support and pressing for the introduction of the previously ditched 'Snoopers Bill', a sharp rise in attacks on the Muslim community, and unprecedented support for the openly racist English Defence League, we are entering dangerous waters, where (in my opinion) the murder of a soldier by two unhinged individuals is being used by those with ulterior motives for their own political agendas, agendas that may have far reaching consequences for us all.

Too many years of all this PC bollox has lead to this position. We need to get tougher with all these people who have been identified as potential terrorists. They should be locked up untill proven as not being a threat or deported, it is as simple as that. Blair signing the chapter on human rights that Maggie had rejected has lead to all of this mess.

 

[Yossarian]

Too many years of all this PC bollox has lead to this position. We need to get tougher with all these people who have been identified as potential terrorists. They should be locked up untill proven as not being a threat or deported, it is as simple as that. Blair signing the chapter on human rights that Maggie had rejected has lead to all of this mess.

How does someone prove they are not a threat? Is the holding and expressing of extremist views enough to be identified as a potential terrorist? If so, we are going to have to lock up a lot of people, the vast majority of whom have not, nor are likely, to ever commit a terrorist act. That's a price too heavy for me.

And if we go down this route haven't the terrorists won? We'll be changing our society beyond recognition due to our fear of them, justified or not.

 

[Questions]

Maybe we can turn the Isle of Wight into a Guantanamo Bay like detention area.

 

[dingodan]

How does someone prove they are not a threat? Is the holding and expressing of extremist views enough to be identified as a potential terrorist? If so, we are going to have to lock up a lot of people, the vast majority of whom have not, nor are likely, to ever commit a terrorist act. That's a price too heavy for me.

And if we go down this route haven't the terrorists won? We'll be changing our society beyond recognition due to our fear of them, justified or not.

Good posts, very true.

 

[Yossarian]

Maybe we can turn the Isle of Wight into a Guantanamo Bay like detention area.

Didn't Nicky Wire from The Manic Street Preachers express a similar idea for crusties? I think he went one further though and included nuking the island once they were all aboard.

 

[Stat Brother]

First up, the cold blooded murder of Lee Rigby was obviously a sickening, unjustifiable act of barbarism. However, as the dust settles, what price do we place on our freedom and liberties? With the Home Sec now claiming cross-party support and pressing for the introduction of the previously ditched 'Snoopers Bill', a sharp rise in attacks on the Muslim community, and unprecedented support for the openly racist English Defence League, we are entering dangerous waters, where (in my opinion) the murder of a soldier by two unhinged individuals is being used by those with ulterior motives for their own political agendas, agendas that may have far reaching consequences for us all.

All we are doing is following America's lead.

The civil liberties being lost in the name of 'the war against terror' is amazing.

 

[pork pie]

Maybe we can turn the Isle of Wight into a Guantanamo Bay like detention area.

That is a bloody stupid idea!

The Isle of Wight is far too good for that use. Use some rock off of Scotland. That would be ideal.

 

[Yossarian]

That is a bloody stupid idea!

The Isle of Wight is far too good for that use. Use some rock off of Scotland. That would be ideal.

Shocking Caledonianism (?). You are now on my special list and I am currently hacking into your Bebo account.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Isn't bringing the immigradtion debate into this a bit invalid considering they were British born and raised? Or at least I thought that was the case.

 

[Yossarian]

Isn't bringing the immigradtion debate into this a bit invalid considering they were British born and raised? Or at least I thought that was the case.

Indeed it is. I'm often reminded of this measured response by British Sea Power's Yan on The Quietus website when people trot out the immigration/deportation nonsense...

We received the following email from BSP's Jan Scott Wilkinson, currently sat waiting for soundcheck for the band's Dublin show, and who says he's "reminded of my own parents' English and Irish immigration-based romance."

Wilkinson writes: "It seems that over the last year or two especially there has been a rise in anti-immigration sloganeering and propaganda. For several reasons this seems rather stupid, and what is more disappointing is the way that so many people in politics and the media who should know better have largely not challenged this view. Obviously times are hard and the economy is not going well, and it seems the old story of 'blame the last ones in' rather than looking towards real solutions has become popular. It's a kind of superstitious nonsense akin to witch burning. Instead of hearing about the NHS being staffed and kept going by conscientious hard workers from other parts of the world, we're told that it's groaning under the strain of newcomers. It seems obvious that immigration is being used as a scapegoat for all the problems caused by greed, ignorance, bad luck and a lack of planning.

 

[Seagull Stew]

Maybe we can turn the Isle of Wight into a Guantanamo Bay like detention area.

• Detainees in Guantanamo now: 166
• Detainees facing active charges: 6
• Detainees cleared for immediate release, but stuck in the camp: 86
• Guantanamo inmates on hunger strike: 103
• Hunger strikers strapped down and force fed: 30
• Prisoners who have died in custody: 9
• Children the US has held at Guantanamo: 21
• Detainees tried in civilian court: 1
• Detainees who can't be tried for lack of evidence or torture: 50
• Prisoners released by the Bush administration: 500+
• Prisoners released by the Obama administration: 72
• Current annual cost to US taxpayers: $150 million
• Days since Obama first pledged to close Gitmo: 1579
• Time since first prisoners arrived at Guantanamo: 11 years, 4 months, 11 days

Yeah, UK should strive to follow America's lead of guilty until proven innocent! "Great" idea!

 

[beorhthelm]

we certainly dont want the snoopers charter revisted. it would be a pointless loss of privacy as it wouldnt solve anything. recall, MI5 had these chaps on radar, but felt there was no risk (no fault of them). could the security service even cope with and filter the threats raised by monitoring? probably not.

 

[Mr Smggles]

• Detainees in Guantanamo now: 166
• Detainees facing active charges: 6
• Detainees cleared for immediate release, but stuck in the camp: 86
• Guantanamo inmates on hunger strike: 103
• Hunger strikers strapped down and force fed: 30
• Prisoners who have died in custody: 9
• Children the US has held at Guantanamo: 21
• Detainees tried in civilian court: 1
• Detainees who can't be tried for lack of evidence or torture: 50
• Prisoners released by the Bush administration: 500+
• Prisoners released by the Obama administration: 72
• Current annual cost to US taxpayers: $150 million
• Days since Obama first pledged to close Gitmo: 1579
• Time since first prisoners arrived at Guantanamo: 11 years, 4 months, 11 days

Yeah, UK should strive to follow America's lead of guilty until proven innocent! "Great" idea!

I think it was more of an idea of a Prison Island, than the exact details.

 

[Hillian1]

Please stop engaging with this fool.

Ironic that I replied to the thread really but that is what the fool wants.

IGNORE.

 

[Yossarian]

Please stop engaging with this fool.

Ironic that I replied to the thread really but that is what the fool wants.

IGNORE.

Eh?

 

[looney]

How does someone prove they are not a threat? Is the holding and expressing of extremist views enough to be identified as a potential terrorist? If so, we are going to have to lock up a lot of people, the vast majority of whom have not, nor are likely, to ever commit a terrorist act. That's a price too heavy for me.

And if we go down this route haven't the terrorists won? We'll be changing our society beyond recognition due to our fear of them, justified or not.

You could say the same thing about "hate crimes" like "homophobia" etc, except people like you dont.