What is Peter Crouch doing?

[Mellotron]

This Season
Scored v
Wigan (prem)
Swindon (league cup)

Last Season
Scored v
Arsenal (prem)
Wolves (prem)
Man City (prem)
Liverpool (FA Cup)
Swansea (prem)
Crawley (FA Cup)
Blackburn (2) (prem)
Wolves (prem)
Blackburn (prem)
Maccabi Tel (Europa)
Arsenal (prem)
Besiktas (Europa)
Man Utd (prem)

Managed to score against the three top teams in the Premier League last season (in two matches v Arsenal). Man United and Man City were the two best defences in he prem last season. Liverpool were joint 3rd best (with Everton). Arsenal were the 8th best.

So, not amazing reading particularly, for what a lot of number of people think is "england's best goalscorer"? I'd like to see it over the last few seasons too.

Arsenal's defence was uncharacteristically poor last season so I don't really see why the "8th best" should be counted as top.

So, home and away against City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Real Madrid season prior, Spurs - 12 games, he scored THREE. For a "natural goalscorer" that's really nothing special, is it?

Meanwhile notice how he cleans up against the likes of Wolves (2 in 2 games), Blackburn (2 in 2 games).

 

[Acker79]

That backs up the fact that he mostly scores against minnows.

It also backs up what I mentioned about him never really playing for England against bigger teams.

 

[Acker79]

So, not amazing reading particularly, for what a lot of number of people think is "england's best goalscorer"? I'd like to see it over the last few seasons too.

But shows he can and does score against top defences.

 

[Mellotron]

But shows he can and does score against top defences.

Just not very often. Which was my (and many other's) point. About once every 6/7 games against top defences.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Just not very often. Which was my (and many other's) point. About once every 6/7 games against top defences.

Sorry Mello -we agree on pretty much everything football related, but not on this. The whole argument that Crouch should not be valued for his ability to put Macedonia and Algeria to the sword, simply because he can't score in club games against Real Madrid, is an utterly, utterly stupid one.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Should we also discount all of RVP's goals against anyone outside the top 4 last season as they basically don't count....

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Should we also discount all of RVP's goals against anyone outside the top 4 last season as they basically don't count....

Crouch goals v Montenegro = Barnes penalties.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Crouch goals v Montenegro = Barnes penalties.

Indeed. They're basically open goals. RVP has 4 this season, but they are against Southampton and Fulham. So really he is at 0.

Messi really only scored about 4 last season as Real Madrid are the only other' top' team in Spain.

 

[Mellotron]

Sorry Mello -we agree on pretty much everything football related, but not on this. The whole argument that Crouch should not be valued for his ability to put Macedonia and Algeria to the sword, simply because he can't score in club games against Real Madrid, is an utterly, utterly stupid one.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Nor Man Utd, nor Man City, nor Spurs, nor Chelsea? His record against top defences IS pretty poor all round. Simple as that really. Ask Spurs fans.

Nowhere did I judge him JUST on his woefully hilarious performance against Real Madrid where he pretty much singlehandedly gifted them the game. Shame as Bale was really causing them problems and was looking a cracking game until Crouch's red.

 

[Mellotron]

Indeed. They're basically open goals. RVP has 4 this season, but they are against Southampton and Fulham. So really he is at 0.

Messi really only scored about 4 last season as Real Madrid are the only other' top' team in Spain.

Hmm, Fulham's defence featuring the likes of renowned internationals Senderos, Riise and Hangeland vs Moldova's, featuring part time plumber - Armas - and his mate who he rang up to see if he was around for the game, Bulgaru. Yup you're right, they're definitely at the same level.

Crouch's record speaks for itself.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

I would always have picked him, not for his goal-scoring, but for his ridiculous presence in the area. You could see defences panicking when he trotted up for a corner, and as long as there was another striker to profit from being left alone, I felt he was worth it.

 

[Acker79]

So, not amazing reading particularly, for what a lot of number of people think is "england's best goalscorer"? I'd like to see it over the last few seasons too.

Arsenal's defence was uncharacteristically poor last season so I don't really see why the "8th best" should be counted as top.

So, home and away against City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Real Madrid season prior, Spurs - 12 games, he scored THREE. For a "natural goalscorer" that's really nothing special, is it?

Meanwhile notice how he cleans up against the likes of Wolves (2 in 2 games), Blackburn (2 in 2 games).

This Season (3 starts, 1 sub, 2 goals) - With Stoke
Scored v
Wigan (prem)
Swindon (league cup)

Last Season (37 starts, 4 subs, 14 goals) - First Season with Stoke
Scored v
Arsenal (prem) 8th best defence
Wolves (prem)
Man City (prem) Best Defence
Liverpool (FA Cup) Joint 3rd best defence
Swansea (prem)
Crawley (FA Cup)
Blackburn (2) (prem)
Wolves (prem)
Blackburn (prem)
Maccabi Tel (Europa)
Arsenal (prem)
Besiktas (Europa)
Man Utd (prem) 2nd best defence


2010/11 (31 starts, 20 subs, 15 goals) - With Tottenham
Scored v
Stoke (2) (Prem) (top nine defence that season)
Milan (UCL)
Blackburn (Prem)
Bremen (UCL)
France (Int)
Blackburn
Inter (UCL)
Bremen (UCL)
Young Boys (3) (UCL)
Mexico (Int)
Egypt (2) (Int)


2009/10 (32 starts, 21 subs, 16 goals) - First Season with Tottenham
Scored v
Man City (Prem) (7th best defence)
Sunderland (Prem)
Portsmouth (Prem)
Fulham (Prem) (8th best defence)
Leeds (FA Cup)
Blackburn (2) (Prem)
Wigan (Prem)
Belars (2) (Int)
Preston (3) (League Cup)
Birmingham (Prem) (9th best defence)
Doncaster (League Cup)
Andorra (int)


2008/09 (55 starts, 8 subs, 22 goals) - With Portsmouth
Scored v
Ukraine (Int)
Everton (2) (Prem) Joint 5th best defence that season
Middlesbrough (Prem)
Bristol City (FA Cup)
Bolton (Prem)
Heerenveen (2) (UEFA)
West Brom (Prem)
Blackburn (Prem)
Hull (Prem)
Fulham (Prem) 4th best defence that season
Stoke (Prem)
Guinaraes (2) (UEFA)
Tottenham (Prem) Joint 7th best defence that season
Everton (Prem)
Croatia (Int)
Estonia (Int)
Macedonia (Int)
Andorra (2) (Int)

2007/2008 (21 starts, 15 subs, 11 goals) - With Liverpool
Scored v
Birmingham (Prem)
Fulham (Prem)
Arsenal (Prem) 4th best defence that season
Sunderland (Prem)
Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup)
Aston Villa (Prem) joint 9th bst defence that season
Luton (FA Cup)
FC Porto (UCL)
Besiktas (2) (UCL)
Toulouse (UCL)


I've noted any that are top half in the prem for defence.

Maybe we should take him on loan for our games v blackburn and wolves...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Indeed. They're basically open goals. RVP has 4 this season, but they are against Southampton and Fulham. So really he is at 0.

Messi really only scored about 4 last season as Real Madrid are the only other' top' team in Spain.

No, I don't think you've actually quite grasped this concept. RVP's goals DO all count because he is good, even if they are against Southampton. Messi's also all count, as he too is good.
Crouch's and Barnes' (penalties) don't count because they are (in the eyes of some) not so good.

Given Mellotron's position in the Barnes debate, I am stunned to see him on the other side of the fence on the Crouch one. He's a clever chap, so I'm surprised that he cannot see that they are the same argument - people twisting statistics to belittle the achievements of an effective but non-flash striker.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Crouch's record speaks for itself.

I agree. 22 goals in 42 games. Brilliant.

 

[Mellotron]

This Season (3 starts, 1 sub, 2 goals) - With Stoke
Scored v
Wigan (prem)
Swindon (league cup)

Last Season (37 starts, 4 subs, 14 goals) - First Season with Stoke
Scored v
Arsenal (prem) 8th best defence
Wolves (prem)
Man City (prem) Best Defence
Liverpool (FA Cup) Joint 3rd best defence
Swansea (prem)
Crawley (FA Cup)
Blackburn (2) (prem)
Wolves (prem)
Blackburn (prem)
Maccabi Tel (Europa)
Arsenal (prem)
Besiktas (Europa)
Man Utd (prem) 2nd best defence


2010/11 (31 starts, 20 subs, 15 goals) - With Tottenham
Scored v
Stoke (2) (Prem) (top nine defence that season)
Milan (UCL)
Blackburn (Prem)
Bremen (UCL)
France (Int)
Blackburn
Inter (UCL)
Bremen (UCL)
Young Boys (3) (UCL)
Mexico (Int)
Egypt (2) (Int)


2009/10 (32 starts, 21 subs, 16 goals) - First Season with Tottenham
Scored v
Man City (Prem) (7th best defence)
Sunderland (Prem)
Portsmouth (Prem)
Fulham (Prem) (8th best defence)
Leeds (FA Cup)
Blackburn (2) (Prem)
Wigan (Prem)
Belars (2) (Int)
Preston (3) (League Cup)
Birmingham (Prem) (9th best defence)
Doncaster (League Cup)
Andorra (int)


2008/09 (55 starts, 8 subs, 22 goals) - With Portsmouth
Scored v
Ukraine (Int)
Everton (2) (Prem) Joint 5th best defence that season
Middlesbrough (Prem)
Bristol City (FA Cup)
Bolton (Prem)
Heerenveen (2) (UEFA)
West Brom (Prem)
Blackburn (Prem)
Hull (Prem)
Fulham (Prem) 4th best defence that season
Stoke (Prem)
Guinaraes (2) (UEFA)
Tottenham (Prem) Joint 7th best defence that season
Everton (Prem)
Croatia (Int)
Estonia (Int)
Macedonia (Int)
Andorra (2) (Int)

2007/2008 (21 starts, 15 subs, 11 goals) - With Liverpool
Scored v
Birmingham (Prem)
Fulham (Prem)
Arsenal (Prem) 4th best defence that season
Sunderland (Prem)
Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup)
Aston Villa (Prem) joint 9th bst defence that season
Luton (FA Cup)
FC Porto (UCL)
Besiktas (2) (UCL)
Toulouse (UCL)


I've noted any that are top half in the prem for defence.

Maybe we should take him on loan for our games v blackburn and wolves...

Once again the stats back up my suggestion - he cleans up against lesser sides and is quite a bit less prolific against technically superior, more intelligent defences. And that's fair enough. I'm not saying he's "shit" or anything like that, just really quite limited.

 

[Mellotron]

I agree. 22 goals in 42 games. Brilliant.

His overall record, in more detail, speaks for itself. As has been proved.

22 goals in 42 games, with the VAST majority of those goals coming against sides I would genuinely have half chances against, is admittedly not bad. Whoop de doo.

 

[Acker79]

Just not very often. Which was my (and many other's) point. About once every 6/7 games against top defences.

Many other people's point is that he never scores against the big teams/good defences.

My point is that a) he does b) he hasn't ever really been given a chance to for England.

You can look at the previous seasons if you want to, but surely his more recent performances are more indicative of what he will bring to a team now than previous performances are. And most recently he has scored against four of the best five defences in the premier league.*

*Yes, I know I'm looking at last season after talking about looking back, but since this season is only 4 games old, I feel it is justified (and the man city/liverpool goals - two of the best defences he faced last season - were both this calender year)

 

[Acker79]

Once again the stats back up my suggestion - he cleans up against lesser sides and is quite a bit less prolific against technically superior, more intelligent defences. And that's fair enough. I'm not saying he's "shit" or anything like that, just really quite limited.

Yes, you were. You said "Scores for fun against Kazakhstan and Belarus but utter shit against any defender with a brain." (post 24)

I'm not saying he is the greatest, I think the myth page over states his worth, but he isn't utter shit, and I believe the only reason he "hasn't scored against top teams for England" is that he is never given the opportunity against them.

 

[El Sid]

Wouldn't mind seeing him at the Amex alongside CMS.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

His overall record, in more detail, speaks for itself. As has been proved.

22 goals in 42 games, with the VAST majority of those goals coming against sides I would genuinely have half chances against, is admittedly not bad. Whoop de doo.

I'm sorry but you are completely belittling the standard of these teams. If it was as easy as you suggest Holland should win every game in their group 10-0 and Van persie should end up with 30 goals in a qualifying campaign.

David bloody healy finished top scorer once in qualifying. That just shows teams dont win every game 4-0. To achieve his goal record is impressive. Whatever way you look at it.