[Football] Well said, Tyrone Mings

[KeegansHairPiece]

Isn't the old saying practice what you preach?

It's not just athletes, it's anyone who has a platform that speaks out on something should be expected to practice what they preach.

The message is stamp out racism in football. How do you do that when you're taking money and having influence from people and organisations who are some of the worst in the world in that area?

Look at the owners of Man City. Raheem Sterling cops racist abuse on social media but is being paid with racist blood money by the vile pricks who own that club. Just seems rather warped.

The warped part here is that you're calling having an opinion regarding ending racism is preaching.

I note above you gave someone the definition of hypocrisy, let's look at preaching:

noun
the delivery of a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
"large numbers of people would come to hear his preaching"

the giving of moral advice in a pompously self-righteous way.
"your preaching won't make me change my mind"

I'm scratching my head as to how the simple message of ending racism / condemning racism is preaching? What is pompous, self-righteous, even religious-like about wanting equality? Why would I need to carefully choose my employment contract, endorsements or whatever else to support or qualify me to have and give an opinion on ending racism.

The flip side is, you're also basically saying it's fine Sterling cops racist abuse because he earns a shed load of money from a football club owned by someone with a poor record on equality, human rights, whatever else. Rather than condemn the racism both the abuse and ownership, it's a free pass on the abuse because of the money he earns. You're saying the only way Sterling is allowed to speak out against abuse he receives is if he quits his job - that is warped.

 

[Robdinho]

The England team that has players taking money from far worse people than some utter peanut on social media or dullard politician?

What's the point of a knee when you do that? It's all just theatre if you say one thing and do another.

You'd have to ask the players how much money it takes to ignore something they are apparently against.

I don't know you but I'll go out on a limb and think that if you went for a job and you found out the person or company hiring had racist or seriously problematic issues you'd most likely say **** that and never want to work for them no matter how much money they offered you. I'd be no different.

 

[BadFish]

The warped part here is that you're calling having an opinion regarding ending racism is preaching.

I note above you gave someone the definition of hypocrisy, let's look at preaching:

noun
the delivery of a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
"large numbers of people would come to hear his preaching"

the giving of moral advice in a pompously self-righteous way.
"your preaching won't make me change my mind"

I'm scratching my head as to how the simple message of ending racism / condemning racism is preaching? What is pompous, self-righteous, even religious-like about wanting equality? Why would I need to carefully choose my employment contract, endorsements or whatever else to support or qualify me to have and give an opinion on ending racism.

The flip side is, you're also basically saying it's fine Sterling cops racist abuse because he earns a shed load of money from a football club owned by someone with a poor record on equality, human rights, whatever else. Rather than condemn the racism both the abuse and ownership, it's a free pass on the abuse because of the money he earns. You're saying the only way Sterling is allowed to speak out against abuse he receives is if he quits his job - that is warped.

The mental gymnastics required to continue to excuse these behaviours is staggering. Kudos to a few on this board though, they are sticking with it.

At some point though, they are going to need to acknowledge the side they are taking and have a damn good look at themselves.

Well either that or be brave enough to openly say what they think.

 

[BadFish]

Earlier in the thread BL wrote:-


If the players are happy to continue taking the knee in support of BLM,


Now obviously I could have written:-

- Athletes taking to their knee predates the BLM movement.
- The BLM movement attached themselves to the message due to its coverage.
- The England team have repeatedly stated their decision to take to their knee isn't a byproduct of BLM but a genuine desire to highlight global racial inequality and the inequality their friends and colleagues are subjected too within their chosen sport.


But what would be the point of me writing that?

“There are none so blind as those who will not see”

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The warped part here is that you're calling having an opinion regarding ending racism is preaching.

I note above you gave someone the definition of hypocrisy, let's look at preaching:

noun
the delivery of a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
"large numbers of people would come to hear his preaching"

the giving of moral advice in a pompously self-righteous way.
"your preaching won't make me change my mind"

I'm scratching my head as to how the simple message of ending racism / condemning racism is preaching? What is pompous, self-righteous, even religious-like about wanting equality? Why would I need to carefully choose my employment contract, endorsements or whatever else to support or qualify me to have and give an opinion on ending racism.

The flip side is, you're also basically saying it's fine Sterling cops racist abuse because he earns a shed load of money from a football club owned by someone with a poor record on equality, human rights, whatever else. Rather than condemn the racism both the abuse and ownership, it's a free pass on the abuse because of the money he earns. You're saying the only way Sterling is allowed to speak out against abuse he receives is if he quits his job - that is warped.

It's preaching because it's to the converted.

It's not changing any of the racists minds one single bit. Do you really think taking the knee has changed the minds of great swathes of people? It's symbology of support in a nutshell.


Your flipside is incorrect, I'm saying Sterling cops abuse and knows it's awful yet taking money from people like that shows zero care or empathy for their victims of far worse things.

Isn't the message about equality and unity?

Why don't people show the same amount of passion against those people as they do against people on twitter or stupid politicians?

Especially when it's the champions of England who these people are connected with.

 

[Bakero]

It's preaching because it's to the converted.

It's not changing any of the racists minds one single bit. Do you really think taking the knee has changed the minds of great swathes of people? It's symbology of support in a nutshell.


Your flipside is incorrect, I'm saying Sterling cops abuse and knows it's awful yet taking money from people like that shows zero care or empathy for their victims of far worse things.

Isn't the message about equality and unity?

Why don't people show the same amount of passion against those people as they do against people on twitter or stupid politicians?

Especially when it's the champions of England who these people are connected with.

Rather than bring up Abu Dhabi's sportswashing in response to footballers trying to do something to fight racism, why not start a thread criticising the Premier League, politicians, the royals and business people cosying up to Middle Eastern despots?

 

[BadFish]

I was going to put my plate in the dishwasherafter dinner this evening.

Suddenly my wife screamed at me "Don't bother!!!! Stop preaching, I know that plate needs cleaning . . . tomorrow it will be dirty again. nothing will change because of your symbololgy"

I asked why and she replied "Your futile gesture will not clear up the rest of the dishes, look at all these other dishes in the kitchen. What a waste of time"

She continued "and you left a mess on the coffee table earlier, you ****ing hypocrite!! Why don't you show the same amount of passion for the lounge as you do for that plate."

So **** it, I won't do anything.

 

[Mellotron]

I have him on ignore but I’ll answer for him

“Yes, but, look over there at those bad people doing even badder things”.

From others responses, I can see I pretty much nailed it.

 

[Titanic]

I was going to put my plate in the dishwasher after dinner this evening.

Suddenly my wife screamed at me "Don't bother!!!!"

I asked why and she replied "Your futile gesture will not clear up the rest of the dishes, look at all these other dishes in the kitchen. What a waste of time"

She continued "and you left a mess on the coffee table earlier, you ****ing hypocrite!! Why don't you show the same amount of passion for the lounge as you do for that plate."

So **** it, I won't do anything.

I take a knee when I put my plate in the dishwasher.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Of course they can comment on anything they like. But if you want to stamp out something in football it's counterproductive to then legitimise something that contributes to the things you're railing against.

The Qatari government and racism in British society are two entirely different things. Again, who decides which is worse?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Rather than bring up Abu Dhabi's sportswashing in response to footballers trying to do something to fight racism, why not start a thread criticising the Premier League, politicians, the royals and business people cosying up to Middle Eastern despots?

What are they trying to do exactly?

Symbolism won't change a whole lot.

Maybe they'll get some hypocritical social media platforms to change a few policies but that won't remove that element from society, just remove them from social media.

What is the actual goal of taking the knee in the end?

Seem something far more radical like booting owners like Man City's out of the game, banning all Chinese money and influence from the game is needed to have a far greater impact world wide in sending a message such things won't be tolerated anymore.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A 50 year old youth football coach, from Warwickshire, has been arrested for his racist tweet to Marcus Rashford.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

It's preaching because it's to the converted.

It's not changing any of the racists minds one single bit. Do you really think taking the knee has changed the minds of great swathes of people? It's symbology of support in a nutshell.

Racism has changed. In the UK we are now down to about only 10% thinking you need to be white to be British. 25 years ago it would have been inconceivable it would drop that low. So somewhere along the line, minds are changed. I'm not saying taking the knee does this on it's own, but things change by a culmination of small steps and time.

Your flipside is incorrect, I'm saying Sterling cops abuse and knows it's awful yet taking money from people like that shows zero care or empathy for their victims of far worse things.

Isn't the message about equality and unity?

Why don't people show the same amount of passion against those people as they do against people on twitter or stupid politicians?

Especially when it's the champions of England who these people are connected with.

No, all you've done is highlight Sterling isn't a perfect human being. He has every right to have an opinion on racism and be in employment. Your criticism of him not paying more attention to the activities of his employer may well be valid, but that is what you have, a criticism of his employer, it doesn't exclude Sterling having his opinion.

Taking the knee maybe an empty gesture, these players could expand their activism to more than just abuse or child poverty and hunger, BUT it is where they are as human beings right now. Their message is a good one, I'd prefer to be critical of racism, their employers or whatever else than them to be honest. They're the wrong target.

 

[BadFish]

What are they trying to do exactly?

Symbolism won't change a whole lot.

Maybe they'll get some hypocritical social media platforms to change a few policies but that won't remove that element from society, just remove them from social media.

What is the actual goal of taking the knee in the end?

To create discussion - It is doing a brilliant job of that

Seem something far more radical like booting owners like Man City's out of the game, banning all Chinese money and influence from the game is needed to have a far greater impact world wide in sending a message such things won't be tolerated anymore.

Good idea, you should start a thread about it. This thread is about something different.

 

[Postman Pat]

A 50 year old youth football coach, from Warwickshire, has been arrested for his racist tweet to Marcus Rashford.

I suspect a few Pompey U18 will also be looking for another career if the images on Twitter of their Whatsapp group are true

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Racism has changed. In the UK we are now down to about only 10% thinking you need to be white to be British. 25 years ago it would have been inconceivable it would drop that low. So somewhere along the line, minds are changed. I'm not saying taking the knee does this on it's own, but things change by a culmination of small steps and time.



No, all you've done is highlight Sterling isn't a perfect human being. He has every right to have an opinion on racism and be in employment. Your criticism of him not paying more attention to the activities of his employer may well be valid, but that is what you have, a criticism of his employer, it doesn't exclude Sterling having his opinion.

Taking the knee maybe an empty gesture, these players could expand their activism to more than just abuse or child poverty and hunger, BUT it is where they are as human beings right now. Their message is a good one, I'd prefer to be critical of racism, their employers or whatever else than them to be honest. They're the wrong target.

Taking the knee has brought much more attention to the racism than any slogan on tshirts or badges on football logos.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

To create discussion - It is doing a brilliant job of that



Good idea, you should start a thread about it. This thread is about something different.

That’s all he does. He can’t acknowledge there’s a problem so introduces whataboutery to it. Best ignored.

 

[darkwolf666]

Well they share the same views as me, so not sure proud is the word. I mean did you just assume that all black people think the same?

Looks like you did.

No, there are extremists in every walk of life...

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Racism has changed. In the UK we are now down to about only 10% thinking you need to be white to be British. 25 years ago it would have been inconceivable it would drop that low. So somewhere along the line, minds are changed. I'm not saying taking the knee does this on it's own, but things change by a culmination of small steps and time.

Which is generally tied to improving people's financial situations.

No, all you've done is highlight Sterling isn't a perfect human being. He has every right to have an opinion on racism and be in employment. Your criticism of him not paying more attention to the activities of his employer may well be valid, but that is what you have, a criticism of his employer, it doesn't exclude Sterling having his opinion.

Taking the knee maybe an empty gesture, these players could expand their activism to more than just abuse or child poverty and hunger, BUT it is where they are as human beings right now. Their message is a good one, I'd prefer to be critical of racism, their employers or whatever else than them to be honest. They're the wrong target.[/QUOTE]


They are the target if they are raising racism as an issue while working for racists and not calling out their racist practices.

They have a large platform from which to call out such people. Unlike you or I do.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

No, there are extremists in every walk of life...

Is that you Joe Biden?

If you don't vote for you you aint black right?