[Albion] We are the idiots, not Hughton

[Shooting Star]

Fully expect to be shouted down for this but I really don't care.

We had 25 points by Christmas and were sailing towards Premier League safety but fans weren't happy with the style of football we were playing. We weren't satisfied with gritty, defensive 1-0's here and there. So Chris eventually had us playing 4-3-3, trying to be more open and expansive. Has it worked? No. Why? Because of the constraints of the players he has to work with.

Now, he's rightly calling for us to be more defensive and to stop shipping goals i.e. return to what has made us so successful this season. The approach of trying to be attacking is clearly not working with the bunch of players we have. I think sometimes as fans we sit in our ivory towers and create some mental picture of the players we think AJ, Davy etc. could be, without having the slightest bit of knowledge about the players they actually are because we're not on the training ground with them day in, day out. Naylor, Paul Hayward and other journalists/pundits who are worth their salt can see this, but we're too blinded by where we imagine Albion should be.

Hughton's not a flaming idiot. Do people think he genuinely wants us not to score, to be relegated and to lose his job and the livelihood for his family? He played attacking football in the Championship but we are on a completely different level of play right now. The players we've got aren't going to play the football we want and get the results we need. Look at Fulham.

It's ironic that the attitudes we criticise Palace fans for when they've throw their toys out of the pram about Hodgson is precisely the same reaction many of us are having right now regards to Chris.

I'm as upset that we've sleepwalked to a relegation battle as anyone else. CH going back to what he knows this group of players do best is our best last chance of surviving. If he has at any point this season listened to us, he really needs to stop and have faith in his own ability rather than a bunch of armchair pundits.

 

[blue-shifted]

Won't shout you down Shooting Star, but I have a question.

Do you think Hughton changed the formation due to fan pressure?

 

[Nixonator]

I agree to an extent, but the time to have recognised 433/451 was not working for us passed by months ago.

So no, it is not us being the idiots. Yes, we have some very loud and outspoken people wanting us to turn on the attacking flair after ONE season in the PL, but I cannot fathom how that has possibly applied pressure enough for a seasoned (and by all accounts intransigent) manager to go against what he knows.

It is far more likely we got complacent with our haul before Christmas, and decided to try something different. The question is why has it been forced for so long when it's clear for all to see it's not working?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

All excuses at the end of the day the buck stops with Hughton, he has to go.

 

[blue-shifted]

I also don’t buy that the 4-3-3 we play is more attacking that 4-4-1-1

Ignore the fact, for a moment, that 4-3-3 often looks much more like 4-5-1 in practice ….. Under 4-3-3, seven players (the defenders and midfielders) are predominantly there to defend and the other 3 predominantly there to attack.

Under 4-4-1-1, Gross and Murray, plus the two wingers are predominantly attacking players.

The way I see it, there four mostly attacking players in 4-4-1-1 as opposed to three in 4-3-3.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

I agree to an extent, but the time to have recognised 433/451 was not working for us passed by months ago.

So no, it is not us being the idiots. Yes, we have some very loud and outspoken people wanting us to turn on the attacking flair after ONE season in the PL, but I cannot fathom how that has possibly applied pressure enough for a seasoned (and by all accounts intransigent) manager to go against what he knows.

It is far more likely we got complacent with our haul before Christmas, and decided to try something different. The question is why has it been forced for so long when it's clear for all to see it's not working?

Something ironic calling the fans stupid for demanding change and Hughton succumbing to the demand rather than trust his own judgement. Hughton is accountable to one man, one man only - Bloom. Fans did demand more attacking football and rightfully so, the problem is that Hughton knows the team the best yet still insisted on playing a formation that doesn't suit the players. Criticism is immediately dubbed "armchair pundits" as a means to condescend opinion. Or, in this situation, the statistics literally reinforce the argument the formation has been an utter failure in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Ernest]

All excuses at the end of the day the buck stops with Hughton, he has to go.

And Barber too

 

[Icy Gull]

Anyone who thinks that us fans have pushed CH into changing his tactics is a bit of a nutter

 

[peterward]

And the lickers will lick

 

[A1X]

I agree with a lot of the post but I actually think 4-3-3 was borne out of necessity rather than anything. When Gross went down injured we had become too reliant on playing someone in a #10 role, so had to change the system as we had no obvious backup. This could have been addressed in January but wasn't, had it been we would probably have abandoned 4-3-3 months ago.

 

[Mr Banana]

I think we probably have enough in the squad to score more than a consolation goal against Burnley and a late winner against Huddersfield, of our recent fixtures.

 

[Commander]

It isn't 4-3-3 though, is it? It's 4-5-1 and it's less attacking than 4-4-1-1. We use March and Jahanbakhsh more like defensive midfielders than strikers. If Hughton really did change the formation because of the fans, then that's even more of a reason for him to go.

I really hope he keeps us up this year, but nothing is going to change if we hang on to him for another season. The football will be the same, the league position will be more or less the same. Maybe we'll scrape through again, maybe we won't. But nothing will majorly change, and eventually our luck will run out and we'll go down.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

It isn't 4-3-3 though, is it? It's 4-5-1 and it's less attacking than 4-4-1-1. We use March and Jahanbakhsh more like defensive midfielders than strikers. If Hughton really did change the formation because of the fans, then that's even more of a reason for him to go.

I really hope he keeps us up this year, but nothing is going to change if we hang on to him for another season. The football will be the same, the league position will be more or less the same. Maybe we'll scrape through again, maybe we won't. But nothing will majorly change, and eventually our luck will run out and we'll go down.

Two things are certain.
1) Death
2) The majority of teams in the PL will be relegated, sooner or later.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It isn't 4-3-3 though, is it? It's 4-5-1 and it's less attacking than 4-4-1-1. We use March and Jahanbakhsh more like defensive midfielders than strikers. If Hughton really did change the formation because of the fans, then that's even more of a reason for him to go.

I really hope he keeps us up this year, but nothing is going to change if we hang on to him for another season. The football will be the same, the league position will be more or less the same. Maybe we'll scrape through again, maybe we won't. But nothing will majorly change, and eventually our luck will run out and we'll go down.

I bet there were fans said that about Dyche when they were relegated having scored just 28 goals in 38 games.

You could argue Hughton's biggest mistake has been overachieving and keeping comfortably away from the bottom 3 since we came up. First time we skirt with it, and we're having an absolute melt down. We're still 2 points to the good with 5 games to go. This is what a relegation fight is, it's never pretty, entertaining, enjoyable. None of the teams play well, that is why you're down there. We've just got to hope they snap themselves out of it. He didn't become a bad manager over a 3 month spell.

 

[Commander]

I bet there were fans said that about Dyche when they were relegated having scored just 28 goals in 38 games.

You could argue Hughton's biggest mistake has been overachieving and keeping comfortably away from the bottom 3 since we came up. First time we skirt with it, and we're having an absolute melt down. We're still 2 points to the good with 5 games to go. This is what a relegation fight is, it's never pretty, entertaining, enjoyable. None of the teams play well, that is why you're down there. We've just got to hope they snap themselves out of it. He didn't become a bad manager over a 3 month spell.

I think this is what the problem is. We aren't in one.

 

[LamieRobertson]

And the lickers will lick

And the moaners will moan ..works both ways doesn’t it..but IG is right CH wasn’t influenced by fans and won’t be now which will disappoint some

 

[wolfie]

The question really is WHY haven't we got the players to adapt to a more offensive system or as back-up for Gross ? I understand why CH has such a pragmatic approach (ie do the best you can with what you've got) but I did feel uneasy at the end of the last transfer window when he came out and said that we were unlikely to recruit and he was happy with what he'd got.

 

[London Irish]

lol who in their right mind thinks we’ve been playing attacking 4 3 3 football. Delusional

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think this is what the problem is. We aren't in one.

No, the players have 5 more games to realise they are. Cardiff have always been in it, we've only just woken up to it.

We understand now why manager's don't want to commit to the FA Cup. We felt safe in January by doing no business, we've enjoyed our cup run distraction, we have literally just dumped ourselves in this spot.

 

[Don Quixote]

The sleepwalking into a relegation battle is Hughton’s fault. He’s the manager and he has to take responsibility for it. The fans have nothing to do with it.