[Football] WBA Safe Standing proposal turned down...

[DavePage]

Twitch

Snitch rules aka Potter

 

[Tokyohands]

It will take time, a lot of pressure and a lot of rejected applications from different clubs before it is seriously considered.

 

[darkwolf666]

No, I'm suggesting that you're lucky because the rules have changed during your life span and you can sit in a position where you used to stand, but you seem to have a dog-in-the-manger attitude to anyone else's preferences. You get a seat, which is what you want - no reason to oppose some people who want the choice to stand. 30K people can come into the stadium, ffs - if you're sitting comfortably, wtf is it to you if someone somewhere else in that vast crowd is standing? Get over it.

Ok, you clearly get vexed over this.

I don't have a problem with the idea of a safe standing area, if that's what is decided upon. What I do have a problem with is people standing when seats are provided with no consideration for others. This notion that fans are turning to those behind and asking if it's ok if they stand is quite frankly bollox.

A clearly vocal minority appear to have taken it upon themselves to "demand" their right to stand and sod everybody else... yes if safe standing is introduced then there won't be any seated fans to be bothered, but fans who want to sit may be pushed out of a currently preferred location, as was and still is the point of my argument, just to appease the vocal minority.

 

[darkwolf666]

If I follow your argument correctly, you sit because you have to sit, whereas you used to stand, so if safe-standing was introduced you'd stand again. So whats the problem?

No, I wouldn't stand now. As I prefer to sit and watch the game. I am afraid I am way past the days of the mosh pit terraces. My problem is the vocal minority "demanding" their right to stand and having no consideration for others, under the current regulations (I know, not laws).

I feel certain that if a safe standing area was introduced this would bring it's own set of problems akin to people not sitting in their allocated seat numbers at away games. Fans would almost certainly want to join the standing area when they don't have tickets and chaos would ensue, until the day we have a safe standing disaster.

Times have changed, get over it...

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No, I wouldn't stand now. As I prefer to sit and watch the game. I am afraid I am way past the days of the mosh pit terraces. My problem is the vocal minority "demanding" their right to stand and having no consideration for others, under the current regulations (I know, not laws).

I feel certain that if a safe standing area was introduced this would bring it's own set of problems akin to people not sitting in their allocated seat numbers at away games. Fans would almost certainly want to join the standing area when they don't have tickets and chaos would ensue, until the day we have a safe standing disaster.

Times have changed, get over it...

It might be a minority, but its a sizeable one, and a lot of those who choose to sit want to have the atmosphere a kop can provide, I'm sure of it. Those who want to sit, can, and those who want to stand, can't - and perhaps tipping that ratio a bit wouldn't be a bad idea, otherwise the majority become a dictatorship.

My problem is the vocal majority (if it is one) demanding their right to sit anywhere, and having no consideration for others who want the regulations changed so they can once again stand safely at a football ground like fans did for well over a 100,000 matches since the start of the football league.

 

[darkwolf666]

It might be a minority, but its a sizeable one, and a lot of those who choose to sit want to have the atmosphere a kop can provide, I'm sure of it. Those who want to sit, can, and those who want to stand, can't - and perhaps tipping that ratio a bit wouldn't be a bad idea, otherwise the majority become a dictatorship.

My problem is the vocal majority (if it is one) demanding their right to sit anywhere, and having no consideration for others who want the regulations changed so they can once again stand safely at a football ground like fans did for well over a 100,000 matches since the start of the football league.

Best we agree to disagree then

One final thing from me, I don't understand this notion that you can't have an atmosphere when sitting or can only sing when standing?

 

[RandyWanger]

The train or bus ride into the Amex, stood up on an over crowded tin can is far more dangerous. I'm all for a standing section for those that don't want to. Anything to improve the atmosphere.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I'm all for a standing section for those that don't want to. Anything to improve the atmosphere.

I honestly don't see how it will help the atmosphere when the 3 singing sections of the North are standing already.

 

[RandyWanger]

I honestly don't see how it will help the atmosphere when the 3 singing sections of the North are standing already.

Because they are spread out. If they were all together in a designated standing section, things would improve.

 

[perseus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43701400

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing at The Hawthorns rejected by the government.

The pilot scheme would have meant 3,600 seats in the Smethwick End were converted to 'rail seats', which can be locked in an upright position.

West Brom - who are bottom of the Premier League - hoped to install them in time for next season.

Sports minister Tracey Crouch says there are no plans to change the all-seater policy at football stadiums.

That law was introduced followed recommendations made in the Taylor Report into the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans.

But West Brom say their proposal was based on safety concerns, because of persistent standing.

Tey will have to wait until they are in League One

 

[neilbard]

Tory government clearly still have it in for football supporters.

Always have and always will...

I wonder why?

 

[rippleman]

I am a longtime advocate of safe standing. I had always believed that the all-seater dictat brought in by the Tories following the Taylor Report was flawed. Taylor was fed lie after lie by the police and in the end Taylor delivered the report that his political masters wanted.

However, as a NS STH, I am pleased that we have a relaxed approach to standing over the past couple of seasons. I no longer see the necessity for the club to introduce safe standing areas at the Amex but I would strongly support fans of other clubs who desire the right to be able to stand at matches.

 

[Hotchilidog]

It's about time the authorities had to actually justify their inaction on this matter.

It is not about safety at all, just blatant discrimination against football supporters. Not just the safe standing issue, but also the not being able to have a drink in sight of the pitch. Fans of all other sports, most notably Rugby and cricket can both stand and have a beverage. There should be no legal basis for this discrimination.

This ruling is outrageous.

 

[severnside gull]

Recent events at Liverpool and at West Ham made the decision so very easy for the politicians.
There is still the element of thuggery that won't learn and won't change and as a result you can make all the logical and informed arguments you want, but in a political world you won't get a result.

 

[Nixonator]

Best we agree to disagree then

One final thing from me, I don't understand this notion that you can't have an atmosphere when sitting or can only sing when standing?

I don't understand how anyone can still ask this but I know it is a common thing to ask amongst the ignorant. Our very own PB made the mistake of asserting as much a couple of seasons ago (and has since changed his tune) by saying something along the lines of "The Shef Wed game shows that you don't need to stand to create a good atmosphere". Incidentally the only game at the Amex to date where my section in the WL lower were on their feet throughout the first half.

There are legitimate scientific reasons behind it (lung capacity, restricted airway, gravity). Why do you think brass bands sit in strange positions? They are taught to sit in a standing posture. You are also more inclined to be active and vocal when standing as opposed to a much more relaxed position in sitting, it is absolutely incontrovertible.

This is all besides the point anyway, I just want the option of being able to stand without the hassle of worrying if someone behind me is going to ask me to sit, and therefore the hassle of moving to the back without an allocated position in an all-ticket away sellout which we have pretty much had all season. I also want to be able to move ST to the North without worrying about a whole season of the above.

 

[darkwolf666]

I don't understand how anyone can still ask this but I know it is a common thing to ask amongst the ignorant. Our very own PB made the mistake of asserting as much a couple of seasons ago (and has since changed his tune) by saying something along the lines of "The Shef Wed game shows that you don't need to stand to create a good atmosphere". Incidentally the only game at the Amex to date where my section in the WL lower were on their feet throughout the first half.

There are legitimate scientific reasons behind it (lung capacity, restricted airway, gravity). Why do you think brass bands sit in strange positions? They are taught to sit in a standing posture. You are also more inclined to be active and vocal when standing as opposed to a much more relaxed position in sitting, it is absolutely incontrovertible.

This is all besides the point anyway, I just want the option of being able to stand without the hassle of worrying if someone behind me is going to ask me to sit, and therefore the hassle of moving to the back without an allocated position in an all-ticket away sellout which we have pretty much had all season. I also want to be able to move ST to the North without worrying about a whole season of the above.

I just love the way that someone who takes a contrary view to yours is by virtue of that - ignorant! Thanks...

And yes, thanks for the lesson on science, I know the idea of keeping the airways clear to produce a better sound - but we're not the 3 (or 30,000) flipping tenors - I think "we are the Palace haters" can be sung equally well sitting or standing!

Maybe when we get our brass band the can play The Great Escape for 90 minutes on end they can have specially adjusted seats to allow them to sit/stand!

 

[Nixonator]

I just love the way that someone who takes a contrary view to yours is by virtue of that - ignorant! Thanks...

I don't understand how you can take a contrary view to something which has a definitive answer? I know you were asking the question thinking that there isn't one, as I've found many people to do. It seems to be the thing to say in this argument.

I do disagree entirely with your position in thinking people should follow the regulations set out by a bogus report because it suits you. But I don't think you're ignorant because of that, just bloody-minded.

 

[darkwolf666]

I don't understand how you can take a contrary view to something which has a definitive answer? I know you were asking the question thinking that there isn't one, as I've found many people to do. It seems to be the thing to say in this argument.

I do disagree entirely with your position in thinking people should follow the regulations set out by a bogus report because it suits you. But I don't think you're ignorant because of that, just bloody-minded.

Now I'm bloody minded and not ignorant - there is no definitive answer as to whether you can have a better atmosphere sitting or standing, which wasn't my point anyway - I said can you not have a good atmosphere or sing when sitting?

Also can you please point me to the evidence that the Taylor report was bogus.

Are you confusing the Hillsborough report with the Taylor report?

 

[blue-shifted]

OK then, Just for a laugh, if we had safe standing at the Amex what parts do you think it should it cover?

I think the back half of the North Stand plus the back 5 or so rows all around the ground. It would be a great way of spreading the atmosphere around the ground.

A few more thoughts on safe standing.

• I wonder if sometime had the time and inclination to research the number of deaths in football standing areas since records began compared to the number of people who stood at matches in that time. You could then work out the probability of dying in this way compared to, crossing roads, asteroid impacts, being eaten by ducks etc.

• I think there is a fair argument though that football supporters need to get their house in order first. Recently there’s been the City team bus, Amsterdam, West Ham. I’m not surprised a good atmosphere for football fans aren’t at the top of politicians list of priorities.

• I’d rather win the be able to right to drink beer in my seat than safe standing.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Best we agree to disagree then

One final thing from me, I don't understand this notion that you can't have an atmosphere when sitting or can only sing when standing?

Can't speak for others, but I'm far more likely to sing when (a) standing and (b) surrounded by other people singing. Maybe its just me