Wayne Rooney - enough already

[Acker79]

When?

When have we done BETTER?

How do you define better with this wretched England side over the past decade!?

I define it as since rooney's debut, England without Rooney having a better win percentage and a better goals scored per game than they do with him.

England without rooney - all
Win 68.29%
Goals per game 2.12

England with rooney - all
Win 59.26%
Goals per game 1.91




England without rooney - just competitive
Win 68.75%
Goals per game 2.38

England with rooney - just competitive
Win 64.7%
Goals per game 2.02

 

[Commander]

We do better without rooney. Ricky Lambert was the highest scoring english man in the premier league last season. He has scored goals at every level he has played at. Why not give it a go?

The stats to back that up?

And the reason not to give it a go is because Wayne Rooney is a totally different class of player to Ricky Lambert.

 

[Stat Brother]

I don't think the problems come when rating Mr Rooney against fellow English footballers.

The problem comes when that's extrapolated out through Europe and the world.

From there Wayne's £100,000+ (please don't tell me it's twice that) weekly wage looks decidedly shaky.

 

[red star portslade]

Wayne Rooney is to join Chelsea on Friday after wife Coleen agreed personal terms with John Terry last night and again this morning.

 

[Acker79]

The stats to back that up?

And the reason not to give it a go is because Wayne Rooney is a totally different class of player to Ricky Lambert.

Post 83 contains the stats.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I define it as since rooney's debut, England without Rooney having a better win percentage and a better goals scored per game than they do with him.

England without rooney - all
Win 68.29%
Goals per game 2.12

England with rooney - all
Win 59.26%
Goals per game 1.91




England without rooney - just competitive
Win 68.75%
Goals per game 2.38

England with rooney - just competitive
Win 64.7%
Goals per game 2.02

These stats are meaningless. Rooney has played 86 times, but what is the figure for the no. of games he didn't play in? The sample data has to be the same to be comparable surely? If he's played 40 competitive fixtures for your stats, but didn't feature in only 20, then the stats are flawed as comparisons.

As it is, the competitive stats are so close that there really doesn't appear to be much difference whether he plays for not, which rather reinforces my earlier point that England aren't better with or without him, they are just poor.

 

[Acker79]

These stats are meaningless. Rooney has played 86 times, but what is the figure for the no. of games he didn't play in? The sample data has to be the same to be comparable surely? If he's played 40 competitive fixtures for your stats, but didn't feature in only 20, then the stats are flawed as comparisons.

As it is, the competitive stats are so close that there really doesn't appear to be much difference whether he plays for not, which rather reinforces my earlier point that England aren't better with or without him, they are just poor.

The point of perentages is that they are representative and acount for different sample sizes. The sample sizes don't have to be identical for the start to have meaning, but the sample sizes do need to be significant in their own rights. 40 games without rooney is a large enough sample size in football games. It's the equivalent of more than an entire premier season.

If I were to say we scored 5 goals with him and 6 without him, the number of games would be important - maybe we scored 5 in two with him and 6 in nine without him. Averages account for different sample sizes.

 

[Sheebo]

All I care about is Wayne playing regular football and finding form in an England shirt. And on a Bhafc forum I hope that's all others care about...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All I care about is Wayne playing regular football and finding form in an England shirt.

Good luck with that one

 

[Simster]

All I care about is Wayne playing regular football and finding form in an England shirt. And on a Bhafc forum I hope that's all others care about...

It's a nice to have, I wouldn't say I care. But HT is right, he's simply not a world class player.

 

[Sheebo]

Good luck with that one

It's a nice to have, I wouldn't say I care. But HT is right, he's simply not a world class player.

One of the most naturally gifted footballers in the world without question. Just seems to have not utilised that given ability to anywhere near the standards he should have. Was immense in 04 but hasn't done much for England since when he really should've been amazing given his ability as a teenager. Can't understand why he's apparently so unhappy though. One of the biggest clubs in the world, stupid amounts of money being thrown at him and doesn't seem to want to fight for his place. Just because you pLayed for for a team that was the 3rd best in the world, doesn't mean you don't have to try..

 

[SB005]

I seem to be in the minority who do view Rooney as a world class player, such natural ability and when he's on form, he is such a joy to watch, he makes it look so simple, like he is playing a kick about in the park with his mates.....he's just better than most. I have no interest really in how much he gets paid or his lifestyle away from football, I care about watching what he does in the pitch.

Now, has he had a tough time lately, sure, but lets not forget injuries, perhaps circumstances away from football which aren't in the public eye and the fact that he has been used in very different positions, particularly since the arrival of RVP, so his goal scoring record will not be as impressive. I would suggest that however much you are paid, whatever your profession, should you encounter time off injured or a year or so of poor results, this would affect you and maybe a change of employer a fresh start doing the same job for a different team, with a different manager, in a different manager could be just what is needed...

As for Rooney in an England shirt, I am always going to be confident when he is playing that we have a chance of something special and defenders of any country will not want to see his name against them, nor goalkeepers.

Away from the pitch, when interviewed, Rooney comes across very quiet, keeps himself to himself to a degree, a man with a young family who we don't actually see on the back pages for off the field antics as often as it is maybe perceived, he is not the arrogant, brash, I deserve more than I'm getting player that some paint him to be.

 

[Mental Lental]

I seem to be in the minority who do view Rooney as a world class player, such natural ability and when he's on form, he is such a joy to watch, he makes it look so simple, like he is playing a kick about in the park with his mates.....he's just better than most. I have no interest really in how much he gets paid or his lifestyle away from football, I care about watching what he does in the pitch.

Now, has he had a tough time lately, sure, but lets not forget injuries, perhaps circumstances away from football which aren't in the public eye and the fact that he has been used in very different positions, particularly since the arrival of RVP, so his goal scoring record will not be as impressive. I would suggest that however much you are paid, whatever your profession, should you encounter time off injured or a year or so of poor results, this would affect you and maybe a change of employer a fresh start doing the same job for a different team, with a different manager, in a different manager could be just what is needed...

As for Rooney in an England shirt, I am always going to be confident when he is playing that we have a chance of something special and defenders of any country will not want to see his name against them, nor goalkeepers.

Away from the pitch, when interviewed, Rooney comes across very quiet, keeps himself to himself to a degree, a man with a young family who we don't actually see on the back pages for off the field antics as often as it is maybe perceived, he is not the arrogant, brash, I deserve more than I'm getting player that some paint him to be.

Are you his agent?

If you are can you tell us honestly what he's really earning at Utd? The figure of 200 grand a week seems quite preposterous.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Wayne Rooney is to join Chelsea on Friday after wife Coleen agreed personal terms with John Terry last night and again this morning.

Very good!

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Ricky lambert got more premier league goals than Rooney last season, as did theo Walcott playing as a striker more. Peter crouch has a good record for England, I know he is criticised for not scoring against big teams for England, but he isn't often given much of a chance against them. The few games he played against big international teams were as substitute appearances, and if not scoring against brazil in the 60mins you were on the field is enough to write him off, how about going about a year without a competitive goal, like Rooney did? England score more frequently and win more frequently without Rooney, perhaps it's not as important who we replace him with as just getting him out of the team (or at least only play him when he is in good form, not make him an automatic pick as hodgson recently suggested)

Wayne Rooney should get dropped for Ricky Lambert or Peter Crouch!?

On a basic level: you get one chance in a game, who do you want it falling to? Champions and Premier League winning Wayne Rooney or, lower league clogger, Ricky Lambert or, flat track bully, Peter Crouch?

 

[Brovion]

I agree. I think a move abroad could work.
Also, we all moan about the lack of decent coaching in this country but still all the good young English players remain here! Why? It seems really stupid. If I was a talented teenager I would be angling for a move to a Spanish or German team in order to get better coaching and develop into a better player.

In Britain though the damage is usually done before the player becomes a teenager. Witness all the threads on here about league football for U13s and how the biggest problem facing boys' teams is finding someone to pay money, not for training, but to make sure they all have matching shirts, shorts and socks.

 

[sueflaki]

He shouldn't go to Chelsea, that's not a club for him.

 

[Commander]

Wayne Rooney should get dropped for Ricky Lambert or Peter Crouch!?

On a basic level: you get one chance in a game, who do you want it falling to? Champions and Premier League winning Wayne Rooney or, lower league clogger, Ricky Lambert or, flat track bully, Peter Crouch?

Expect a long drawn out boring monotone response with various statistics and percentages.

The simple answer to your question is Rooney. The best English player of his generation. Yeah he's struggled a bit the last year or so, but how many players don't go through that at some point? Is he world class? It depends what you mean by world class. Is he as good as the likes of Xavi or Messi? No. Is he in the top twenty to thirty players in the world? Yes.

 

[Frutos]

He shouldn't go to Chelsea, that's not a club for him.

How so?

 

[Commander]

In Britain though the damage is usually done before the player becomes a teenager. Witness all the threads on here about league football for U13s and how the biggest problem facing boys' teams is finding someone to pay money, not for training, but to make sure they all have matching shirts, shorts and socks.

I thought Uncle Spielberg had solved this problem?