Wanted - examples of people who have benefited from a 'full pre-season'

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

It's an excuse that we see on here all the time, for both players and managers.

I can think of a few examples of players (Guy Butters anyone?) but am struggling to think of any managers who have taken over mid season (or in disarray) and struggled, only to 'feel the benefit of a full pre-season' and turn fortunes around in year 2.

Any suggestions to persuade me this isn't a NSC myth?

 

[The_Viper]

Do you believe our position at the moment is struggling?

Or is this unrelated to some peoples opines on OG?

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Do you believe our position at the moment is struggling?

Or is this unrelated to some peoples opines on OG?

Neither.

Just amazed how many people use this line when there's so little evidence of it...unless I am mistaken

 

[Keeping The Dream Alive.]

I'm sure there's been a few down the years, but the most obvious one at the moment is Sean Dyche.

 

[nwgull]

Sean Dyche.

When did Brendan Rogers take over? Either way, he is a good example of how a manager can take a full season to put his mark on a team.

 

[The Large One]

Neither.

Just amazed how many people use this line when there's so little evidence of it...unless I am mistaken

You are.

 

[KneeOn]

Neither.

Just amazed how many people use this line when there's so little evidence of it...unless I am mistaken

Poyet - he came in what, November? We played well at Southampton away, then lost a **** tonne of games. Stayed up but it wasn't exactly perfect but it was better than under Slade/Adams. In his second year with his signings like Bennett, Navarro, Briddcutt and Ankergren we went top in September, came off of there in Jan for about 20 minutes before we put our selves top again and won the league by 16 points when it was wrapped up.

Navarro - one of our worst players ever when he joined, couldn't pass for shit. A proper pre season, and an improvement at the tail end of the previous and when he did his knee in at Northampton it looked like a major blow.

El-Abd - for a few years he looked awful. A decent improvement (although still not top of league one/championship quality) at the end of Poyets first year followed by becoming a tank upon which we didn't panic when he had the ball at his feet.

Brezovan didn't have the best of starts with us, became dependable and very unlucky to have not been our number 1 during the promotion year.

That's just off of the top of my head too.

 

[Keeping The Dream Alive.]

Nigel Pearson and Malky Mackay both won promotion in the second season with their clubs after losing in the play-offs the previous years. Both managers were wanted out by a proportion of their fanbase after the play off defeats.

 

[albion534]

David Moyes needed more time

 

[keaton]

I almost know what the OP means (I find the excuse of only having 6 weeks to prepare a little misleading and odd) but it's obviously unproveable one or another. Everyone else is just giving examples of manager's who've been given time which is different than being given a full pre-season.

 

[Biscuit]

Poyet - he came in what, November? We played well at Southampton away, then lost a **** tonne of games.

Not really a **** tonne. We lost 7 out of our his 16 games. To put that in perspective, out of the 6 games we played before Poyet took over, we lost 5 of them.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I almost know what the OP means (I find the excuse of only having 6 weeks to prepare a little misleading and odd) but it's obviously unproveable one or another. Everyone else is just giving examples of manager's who've been given time which is different than being given a full pre-season.

I think pre-season is all about getting the players you have into the right shape. This kind of assumes that you have the players that you want who are capable of playing a certain way. So for a manager the important piece is probably before that, in assessing the players in the squad deciding who to keep and which areas require strengthening.

From a players perspective, modern diets and technology mean that they have no hiding place and you really shouldn't see players piling on the weight over the summer. Young players and to a certain extant those who have been carrying injuries are best placed to benefit. A six week weights program for example can transform a callow youth into the sort of player that is not easily brushed off the ball. It isn't always easy to work at this intensity during the football season.

 

[larus]

I think pre-season is all about getting the players you have into the right shape. This kind of assumes that you have the players that you want who are capable of playing a certain way. So for a manager the important piece is probably before that, in assessing the players in the squad deciding who to keep and which areas require strengthening.

From a players perspective, modern diets and technology mean that they have no hiding place and you really shouldn't see players piling on the weight over the summer. Young players and to a certain extant those who have been carrying injuries are best placed to benefit. A six week weights program for example can transform a callow youth into the sort of player that is not easily brushed off the ball. It isn't always easy to work at this intensity during the football season.

I think it's a tired cliche rolled out too much as far as players are concerned.

For a manager coming in during a season, if they want to play a certain style but don't have the players who are that way inclined, then having the chance the restructure the playing squad to play the way they want is very beneficial.

As for the players 'benefiting from a proper pre season', then, IMO, this is widely exaggerated. I can understand the point about wanting to bulk young players up with an intensive weights program, but for most players, all they have to do is get/stay fit. This can be done at any time of the season. The facilities available to all professional clubs these days will enable players to recover from injuries and regain strength/fitness. Then it's down to the manager to bring them back into the team slowly to get match sharp (i.e. as Oscar is doing with CMS).

 

[supaseagull]

I think it's a tired cliche rolled out too much as far as players are concerned.

For a manager coming in during a season, if they want to play a certain style but don't have the players who are that way inclined, then having the chance the restructure the playing squad to play the way they want is very beneficial.

As for the players 'benefiting from a proper pre season', then, IMO, this is widely exaggerated. I can understand the point about wanting to bulk young players up with an intensive weights program, but for most players, all they have to do is get/stay fit. This can be done at any time of the season. The facilities available to all professional clubs these days will enable players to recover from injuries and regain strength/fitness. Then it's down to the manager to bring them back into the team slowly to get match sharp (i.e. as Oscar is doing with CMS).

I'm not sure I agree...I DO think that as a manager and coaching staff, a good pre-season and a summer of being able to identify the players you want or don't want are important.

If I'm reading one of Oscar's recent interviews correctly, he has let Burke and Jones be his eyes and ears this season because he knows little about the English Championship, the players and the tactics employed by teams.

In fact, bizarrely you've only got to look at the 2010/11 season as a prime example of Poyet having a good pre-season behind him, along with the ability to bring in the players HE wants and not someone else's.

He had a good three quarters of a season during the 2009/10 getting to know his players, bringing in the odd decent loanee like Calde and in fact that season was very similar to the one we're going through this year. It was one of change and transition, just as this year has been.

 

[supaseagull]

I think it's a tired cliche rolled out too much as far as players are concerned.

For a manager coming in during a season, if they want to play a certain style but don't have the players who are that way inclined, then having the chance the restructure the playing squad to play the way they want is very beneficial.

As for the players 'benefiting from a proper pre season', then, IMO, this is widely exaggerated. I can understand the point about wanting to bulk young players up with an intensive weights program, but for most players, all they have to do is get/stay fit. This can be done at any time of the season. The facilities available to all professional clubs these days will enable players to recover from injuries and regain strength/fitness. Then it's down to the manager to bring them back into the team slowly to get match sharp (i.e. as Oscar is doing with CMS).

I'm not sure I agree...I DO think that as a manager and coaching staff, a good pre-season and a summer of being able to identify the players you want or don't want are important.

If I'm reading one of Oscar's recent interviews correctly, he has let Burke and Jones be his eyes and ears this season because he knows little about the English Championship, the players and the tactics employed by teams.

In fact, bizarrely you've only got to look at the 2010/11 season as a prime example of Poyet having a good pre-season behind him, along with the ability to bring in the players HE wants and not someone else's.

He had a good three quarters of a season during the 2009/10 getting to know his players, bringing in the odd decent loanee like Calde and in fact that season was very similar to the one we're going through this year. It was one of change and transition, just as this year has been.

 

[London Irish]

Any suggestions to persuade me this isn't a NSC myth?

It's a myth, much like no other Championship clubs have injured players is another favoured myth on here. People like Oscar and are willing to make excuses for him.

 

[larus]

I'm not sure I agree...I DO think that as a manager and coaching staff, a good pre-season and a summer of being able to identify the players you want or don't want are important.

If I'm reading one of Oscar's recent interviews correctly, he has let Burke and Jones be his eyes and ears this season because he knows little about the English Championship, the players and the tactics employed by teams.

In fact, bizarrely you've only got to look at the 2010/11 season as a prime example of Poyet having a good pre-season behind him, along with the ability to bring in the players HE wants and not someone else's.

He had a good three quarters of a season during the 2009/10 getting to know his players, bringing in the odd decent loanee like Calde and in fact that season was very similar to the one we're going through this year. It was one of change and transition, just as this year has been.

I think you've mis-read my post.

I said for players, I think , in most circumstances, it's wrong. For managers, being able to influence the players in the squad is beneficial.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I almost know what the OP means (I find the excuse of only having 6 weeks to prepare a little misleading and odd) but it's obviously unproveable one or another. Everyone else is just giving examples of manager's who've been given time which is different than being given a full pre-season.

For managers it would / could mean more time to carefully select potential signings, getting their ideas and formations and the way they want the team to play drilled into players rather than having to worry about fitness and getting them to peak condition for match day between games (especially when there are a lot of fixtures in a short space of time).

For players it could mean getting upto full match fitness before the season starts rather then returning to a side only half fit during a season (so that the fans don't get on their backs if their first game back after hardly any training, etc they arn't considered to be playing their best and showing that they are world beaters)

 

[willyfantastic]

for managers i dont think its a myth - i also believe its common sense that they would need a full pre-season to evaluate the current squad, instil their tactics/system, have neough time to bring in some players they want (if they can) etc. I feel like there is a kind of honeymoon effect when managers come in during the middle of season and do well

for players, im not so sure

 

[Buzzer]

Any suggestions to persuade me this isn't a NSC myth?

Off the top of my head and both recent and Albion-related: Dean Wilkins and Gus Poyet.

Thread closed?