Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[beorhthelm]

Is it any wonder so many people are sisillusioned about this whole EU thing, when we read stories like this
Now EU fines Britain £250,000 each day | UK | News | Daily Express

And here's the sensationalist Independent's report:
UK may be fined over failure to honour single market agreement - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

the contrast between these two stories demonstrates exactly my point (and the fact that its the Express is a detail, it could very well have been in the Mail. they really are not so different in their style). The Express version doesnt bother to tell you what the fine is for until half way down the page, while the Inde tells you right there in the first paragraph; the Express implies that its imposed until the end third where it qualifies the story more, while the Inde informs us its a possibility from the title. the upshot of this is a reader going by headline and first couple of paragraphs is going to have two very different views of the same story, one sensationalist outrage at per minute fine imposed by the nasty EU and the other informed of the outline story.

i do flick through the Mail occasionally, half my family read it. the typical story is obvious in its heavy bias to portray one side and frequently often (if you've read the story elsewhere) misses key facts (or as above marginalises them). after a few pages of world/national events (if your lucky and theres lots going on) it turns to stories about individuals against the world/government/council/business/neighbour, which is what i refer to as soap oprea news - its meaningless and pithy with no real importance to anyone in the world and usually heavily one sided. hey, its what sells tabloid papers apparently, but its not really worthy of any serious regard.

 

[User removed 4]

Oh dear, you just had a " Whoosh " moment there didn't you ? " Goodbye and thanks for all the fish " was a book written by Douglas Adams and that would be quite apt given any exit. As for decimating our fish stocks and fishing industry, we have done a pretty good job of wiping out our own fish and plenty of others over the years.

Not really, I just hadn't heard of a preety obscure book, as for the fish stocks , do you really think its our own fishermen who've decimated the stoocks, which were perfectly ok before we joined the EU , or the fact that every pierre,pablo and pietro( a liitle nod to littlejohn there) is now allowed to fish in our waters ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Spot on, and the much derided (in this country) Working Time Directive, Agency Workers Directive and similar regulations also have no purpose other than to shift the balance slightly in favour of the individual (worker in this case) in what is otherwise, a very non-level playing field. At this point, of course, we get the business lobby arguing about how terrible such things are, and what a terrible restriction on the "right to manage", the profitability of small businesses blah, blah.
How is it, that in every other EU member state, companies not only live with, but thrive in this kind of regulatory environment (with many economies including Germany doing far better than our economy) and recognise that a necessary quid pro quo for the free market, no tariff barriers etc is a certain amount of protection for the workforce? Are they really all idiots, but we've got it absolutely right?

I also feel that the reason mainland Europe are more comfortable with the EU is that they, as citizens, benefit from a lot of these seemingly small items. Add up all these small rulings and it leads to a simple, common sense, easy stress free way of life where things work and work for you. As UK citizens we get none of these benefits as the government always opt out.

 

[vegster]

You are right about the Stoocks though, I have not caught one of them for years.

 

[User removed 4]

I also feel that the reason mainland Europe are more comfortable with the EU is that they, as citizens, benefit from a lot of these seemingly small items. Add up all these small rulings and it leads to a simple, common sense, easy stress free way of life where things work and work for you. As UK citizens we get none of these benefits as the government always opt out.

Like in Greece and Spain ?

FYI I'm in favour of a lot of legislation protecting the little man.

 

[CheeseRolls]

The EU does not have any funds........it takes money indirectly from tax payers/businesses via contributions made by their governments or levies additional taxes on directly from consumers by adding levies to the tax system in member states (like VAT) making goods and services more expensive than they should be.

So, the EU is merely passing back some of the money they have taken from hard pressed consumers, businesses or employees in member states. Ironically in the UK at least it is those consumers, employees and businesses who have never had a say on (a) how their taxes are taken and spent by the EU, and (b) how the EU spends the money. going forward there will be more tax raising to come.

EU calls for 'Tobin' tax in a move to raise direct revenue | World news | The Guardian

You will no doubt consider the distribution of some of that money to your bank account as worthwhile, civil servants always do.......but then you are conflicted. You are not going to provide an impartial view on the EU when your livelihood is connected to that institution.........Turkeys don't vote for Christmas do they.

I know you are specifically questioning HT on his stance here,but I do want to throw a couple of things back at you.

Being pro-European does not automatically equate to wanting to put more and more money into a central pot. The point is to engage and fight for the best deal for the UK, within the EU.

Developing high tech new industries is essential to our long term prosperity. It requires huge investment and the success rate is actually quite low. By pooling resources with our European partners we are able to benefit from economies of scale, as in aerospace and defence, focus our own resources in areas where we are particularly strong like life sciences, for example and benefit from areas where our partners are stronger such as wind and solar energy generation. All of this activity involves cross border funds transfers and yes the numbers look enormous, especially when people think that all they are paying for is politicians to sit in Brussels and pontificate.

 

[BadFish]

You are right about the Stoocks though, I have not caught one of them for years.

They are very preety.

Sticky keyboard [MENTION=11956]bushy[/MENTION]?

 

[User removed 4]

They are very preety.

Sticky keyboard [MENTION=11956]bushy[/MENTION]?

oo er missus!! what are you suggesting ?

 

[Camicus]

Yours is an attitude I find unfathomable , are you british ? If so, I cant understand why you sound positively gleeful that our fish stocks have been ravaged by foreign fishermen , decimating our fishing industry .

On fishing the common fisheries policy opened up 25,000,000 sq km to the British fishing fleet. Its also worth noting that the British fishing fleet SOLD its quotas to overseas fishermen and fish stocks had declined by 94% in the previous 118 so way before the CFP. There was a move to improve sustainabilty within the CFP but it was blocked by go on guess who your right The UK as it would have ment we couldnt plunder the Baltic for cod. 99% of UK cod now comes from Canada and Greenland because of the UK fishermen refusing to adopt a more sustainable approach and not abiding by there quotas

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Like in Greece and Spain ?

They snooze in the sun all day with no work to worry about...that's "stress free " isnt it?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know you are specifically questioning HT on his stance here,but I do want to throw a couple of things back at you.

Being pro-European does not automatically equate to wanting to put more and more money into a central pot. The point is to engage and fight for the best deal for the UK, within the EU.

Developing high tech new industries is essential to our long term prosperity. It requires huge investment and the success rate is actually quite low. By pooling resources with our European partners we are able to benefit from economies of scale, as in aerospace and defence, focus our own resources in areas where we are particularly strong like life sciences, for example and benefit from areas where our partners are stronger such as wind and solar energy generation. All of this activity involves cross border funds transfers and yes the numbers look enormous, especially when people think that all they are paying for is politicians to sit in Brussels and pontificate.

Good point about aerospace, the UK's space science industry is actually growing and starting to lead in some areas. I believe this has had EU assistance as well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

FYI I'm in favour of a lot of legislation protecting the little man.

As long as he is white and English

 

[vegster]

Like in Greece and Spain ?

FYI I'm in favour of a lot of legislation protecting the little man.

If Nigel Farage and UKIP get a majority I'd suggest you become the Minister for Fisheries and Dwarves then as you are so passionate in these areas ?

 

[beorhthelm]

Developing high tech new industries is essential to our long term prosperity. It requires huge investment and the success rate is actually quite low. By pooling resources with our European partners we are able to benefit from economies of scale, as in aerospace and defence, focus our own resources in areas where we are particularly strong like life sciences, for example and benefit from areas where our partners are stronger such as wind and solar energy generation. All of this activity involves cross border funds transfers and yes the numbers look enormous, especially when people think that all they are paying for is politicians to sit in Brussels and pontificate.

pooling resources is good, but it doesnt require a bureaucracy which spends time on such matters as what colour a fire extinguisher should be and cant even settle in one location for more than 6mths.

in effect, the work on single market is done, we should move on. but the EU isnt about that, its only a means to an end, which is utlimatly a federalised state with central control of everything.

 

[CheeseRolls]

pooling resources is good, but it doesnt require a bureaucracy which spends time on such matters as what colour a fire extinguisher should be and cant even settle in one location for more than 6mths.

in effect, the work on single market is done, we should move on. but the EU isnt about that, its only a means to an end, which is utlimatly a federalised state with central control of everything.

Okay I will even take the fire extinguisher argument. Take a look and see what we do in this country today.

Fire British Standards - Fire extinguisher, Safety and alarm system BSI standards This is the British standards institute a bureaucracy that is 100% funded by this country. Simplistically any manufacturers that meet this standard can sell to 60 million of us. Manufacturers who meet an EU standard have a market of 450 million people they can sell there devices to. The consumer benefits in two ways.

Economy of scale should translate into lower prices.
People travelling in the region can immediately recognise a fire extinguisher and how to use it, saving vital seconds in the event of a fire and yes the colour is a big visual aid.

 

[Nibble]

It's all academic now as it has pretty much been exposed as a stunt by Cameron to meet his own political agenda. There really isn't a politician or pundit alive that is taking this crap seriously anymore. This will be the beginning of the end for Cameron, if not the Tory's as a whole. Good. I only hope they get ousted before they acheive their goal of stripping the country's assetts to increase their personl wealth and leaving the rest of us to suffer. Because that really is what that man and his cronies are doing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's all academic now as it has pretty much been exposed as a stunt by Cameron to meet his own political agenda. There really isn't a politician or pundit alive that is taking this crap seriously anymore. This will be the beginning of the end for Cameron, if not the Tory's as a whole. Good. I only hope they get ousted before they acheive their goal of stripping the country's assetts to increase their personl wealth and leaving the rest of us to suffer. Because that really is what that man and his cronies are doing.

This. I have been saying so myself. I cannot see how he will get a majority at the next election. And he will be kicked out just after that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Okay I will even take the fire extinguisher argument. Take a look and see what we do in this country today.

Fire British Standards - Fire extinguisher, Safety and alarm system BSI standards This is the British standards institute a bureaucracy that is 100% funded by this country. Simplistically any manufacturers that meet this standard can sell to 60 million of us. Manufacturers who meet an EU standard have a market of 450 million people they can sell there devices to. The consumer benefits in two ways.

Economy of scale should translate into lower prices.
People travelling in the region can immediately recognise a fire extinguisher and how to use it, saving vital seconds in the event of a fire and yes the colour is a big visual aid.

The EU intervention on mobile phones has been beneficial to the punter and businesses as well. Initially they set a standard so that all countries used the same band. At the start of the technology there was a big betamax versus VHS style squabble but this was nipped in the bud allowing the companies to channel all their energy and reserach into technology as opposed to a wasted battle for band supremacy. And only last year they stopped networks stitching is up over non-existant network boundries between countries.

But let's just talk about the bend in a banana eh, it's much more amusing not to mention bullshit.

 

[soistes]

It's all academic now as it has pretty much been exposed as a stunt by Cameron to meet his own political agenda. There really isn't a politician or pundit alive that is taking this crap seriously anymore. This will be the beginning of the end for Cameron, if not the Tory's as a whole. Good. I only hope they get ousted before they acheive their goal of stripping the country's assetts to increase their personl wealth and leaving the rest of us to suffer. Because that really is what that man and his cronies are doing.

I really hope you're right. I really do, but there's a lot can happen between now and May 2015

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

a lot can happen between now and May 2015

Vote Tubthumper! The pro-euro alternative! Common sense and integration with our euro cousins.