[Football] Viera

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In what way was he threatened?

He was called a muppet and told to **** off.
No threat was made.

I agree he was provoked. But that isn't the same thing.
It was not self defence.

You don't need to be physically attacked to find yourself in a threatening scenario. I have every sympathy with him. His respnse was more effective than the goalkeeper who tried to mind his own business and was punched by cowards steaming in from out of his sight line.

 

[Seagull58]

Have you watched the video? The little shit actually tries to hide his hand!
He said something very wrong, and Vieira had a go. He sort of hit him, and sort of kicked him. Big deal.

Sorry, but Vieirra is 100% in the right. 100%.

Yes,, I watched the video and heard the words the scrote shouted. They are quoted earlier in this thread.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

You don't need to be physically attacked to find yourself in a threatening scenario. I have every sympathy with him. His respnse was more effective than the goalkeeper who tried to mind his own business and was punched by cowards steaming in from out of his sight line.

I have sympathy for him.
Having twats come up to you and being verbally abusive is horrible.

After the last minute equaliser at West Ham.
I remember a lot of our fans were goading some of the West Ham fans on the way back to the train.

One of them took a swing at one of the young lads.
I'm guessing you would see that as acceptable, as he felt threatened and that was an appropriate response?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In what way was he threatened?

He was called a muppet and told to **** off.
No threat was made.

I agree he was provoked. But that isn't the same thing.
It was not self defence.

How do you know or even more pertinent, how did Veira know whether the 'fan' had a knife?

Being threatened verbally and getting someone's face is threatening and allowable in self defence. The person only has to be afraid of the threat of violence.

 

[loz]

I am quite shocked any fan of football or indeed any sport is trying to blame a professional sportsman who in the moment of defeat is subject of verbal and maybe physical assault and momentary lashes out. This is there place of work they should be safe on the pitch.

You must also remember he has seen his striker getting slapped in the previous pitch invasion and I am sure his adrenaline was flowing fast.

I know it’s your rivals manger but good god don’t blame the victim hear.

 

[birthofanorange]

How do you know or even more pertinent, how did Veira know whether the 'fan' had a knife?

Being threatened verbally and getting someone's face is threatening and allowable in self defence. The person only has to be afraid of the threat of violence.

With all due respect, the video shows that the potential knife-wielding chav had already turned and was walking away. Only then did PV react - surely not the actions of someone who was under further threat (physical or verbal).

I think PV just decided he didn't like what was said and chose to respond after the event,so wasn't an instinctive response to any ongoing threat.

He could (and should) have just kept walking.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

How do you know or even more pertinent, how did Veira know whether the 'fan' had a knife?

Being threatened verbally and getting someone's face is threatening and allowable in self defence. The person only has to be afraid of the threat of violence.

Is it sensible to kick a potentially knife wielding lunatic, as they are walking away from you?
The self-defence argument is massively flawed. It relies on a lot of "what ifs" rather than the video evidence.

I appreciate you feel that the yobboes need a spot of national service, or alternatively to have their goolies cut off.
I have an element of sympathy with your view, But the reality is that reacting violently to provocation rarely works out well.

Viera was lucky that it was an isolated dickhead and not a group of coked up twats.
His actions could very easily have escalated the situation.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Is it sensible to kick a potentially knife wielding lunatic, as they are walking away from you?
The self-defence argument is massively flawed. It relies on a lot of "what ifs" rather than the video evidence.

I appreciate you feel that the yobboes need a spot of national service, or alternatively to have their goolies cut off.
I have an element of sympathy with your view, But the reality is that reacting violently to provocation rarely works out well.

Viera was lucky that it was an isolated dickhead and not a group of coked up twats.
His actions could very easily have escalated the situation.

The last thing I want as a veteran is for yobboes to do National Service. Why on earth should professionals have to put up with training idiots for two years.

Ban them for life from football, and I do mean life especially if they are coked up.

I have been trampled on by Brighton fans at a match, and I was in the away end with them, at Selhurst Park. Luckily one of our own, saw what was happening and ran to protect me.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I am quite shocked any fan of football or indeed any sport is trying to blame a professional sportsman who in the moment of defeat is subject of verbal and maybe physical assault and momentary lashes out. This is there place of work they should be safe on the pitch.

You must also remember he has seen his striker getting slapped in the previous pitch invasion and I am sure his adrenaline was flowing fast.
I know it’s your rivals manger but good god don’t blame the victim hear.

I'm not trying to blame him.
It's a simple fact that he lashed out, from anger at someone who goaded him.
Understandable or not, it isn't an OK response.

in the cold light of day, you put your hand up and say.
I was provoked, I handled it badly, I apologise.

 

[birthofanorange]

In my job, it's pretty commonplace to be verbally attacked and on occasion, even spat at. I have seen several colleagues over the years who have responded in a similar physical way as PV did, and in each and every case, the person was dismissed from their employment.
Verbal provocation is not seen as an acceptable excuse to lay hands on the person, and I don't see why the same standards shouldn't apply in other's places of work - football managers included.

 

[Swansman]

He really isn't 100% in the right.

He was verbally (not physically) provoked.
He decided to react physically to verbal provocation, rather than ignore it.
He was under no physical threat from the toe rag.
He chose to react only after said toe rag had turned and was walking away.
He is supposedly in a position of authority.
He failed to act in a professional manner.


I'm sorry, but that in no way makes him 100% in the right.

Maybe right/wrong is entirely subjective and that's why you guys are disagreeing.

Anyway, I'm in camp #bothsurvivedandwilllivehappilyeveraftersoletsjustmoveon

After all we've only got limited time until monkeypox consumes us all.

 

[portslade seagull]

The last thing I want as a veteran is for yobboes to do National Service. Why on earth should professionals have to put up with training idiots for two years.

Ban them for life from football, and I do mean life especially if they are coked up.

I have been trampled on by Brighton fans at a match, and I was in the away end with them, at Selhurst Park. Luckily one of our own, saw what was happening and ran to protect me.

When walking past the W. Ham fans waiting to go in the police sniffer dog was having a field day. Drugs seem to have surpassed drink with the scrotes. Football as a whole needs to address this

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have sympathy for him.
Having twats come up to you and being verbally abusive is horrible.

After the last minute equaliser at West Ham.
I remember a lot of our fans were goading some of the West Ham fans on the way back to the train.

One of them took a swing at one of the young lads.
I'm guessing you would see that as acceptable, as he felt threatened and that was an appropriate response?

Possibly I may. Depends on the level of threat. How big was the melee and how big a scalp was the goadee. Viera class scalp?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I'm not trying to blame him.
It's a simple fact that he lashed out, from anger at someone who goaded him.
Understandable or not, it isn't an OK response.

in the cold light of day, you put your hand up and say.
I was provoked, I handled it badly, I apologise.

Quite, I genuinely don’t understand why this is considered okay. It isn’t and wouldn’t be tolerated on the street.

The issue is clearly the supporters, and it must have been horrible for Vieira, but his reaction was not okay.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Possibly I may. Depends on the level of threat. How big was the melee and how big a scalp was the goadee. Viera class scalp?

The level of threat was comparable to the Viera situation. Not sure the size of "scalp" is relevant to the argument you are failing to make.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The level of threat was comparable to the Viera situation. Not sure the size of "scalp" is relevant to the argument you are failing to make.

Apologies for failing to make my argument. I won't change my mind, though. I consider the level of threat was sufficient. I also have sympathy with 'celebs' who snatch cameraphones off people taking unvited snaps and smashing them.

 

[dadams2k11]

Apologies for failing to make my argument. I won't change my mind, though. I consider the level of threat was sufficient. I also have sympathy with 'celebs' who snatch cameraphones off people taking unvited snaps and smashing them.

Like Ronaldo with the kids phone?

 

[rippleman]

PV has said nothing about the incident, nor has anyone from the club said anything. There are pictures of various players being confronted by fans waving flares at them, giving them the finger etc, and this was just after the 3rd goal, with still around 10 minutes to play, including 7 minutes of added time. Were the players really in the mood to play on? Did they know what was coming at full time? I could see the fans literally all stood ready to charge on, and yet no-one from Everton security or Merseyside police seemed prepared, and thought about the challenge of the Palace team trying to get to the away dressing room, in the opposite corner of the ground from the tunnel. The silence from Everton has been deafening. Should PV have kicked out? Probably not, but it was provocation of the highest order, to a guy who had just seen his team toss away a 2 goal lead. Not sure what the solution is, but if these actions continue, there may have to be some sort of deterrent put in place

Is this not the explanation for Vierra's action though? If you had come from 2-0 to draw or win, do you think his behaviour would have been so violent? Wouldn't a smug grin have sufficed?

It's a bit like I saw (a few years ago) a mum saying to a young boy "how many times *slap* have I told you*slap* not to hit your sister *slap*"

Employing violent aggression is really not the way. Never has been. Never will be.

The fan needs a lengthy ban of course but Vierra getting away unsanctioned just doesn't feel right

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Like Ronaldo with the kids phone?

I don't know that story. Kid's phone? No, that would be silly.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is this not the explanation for Vierra's action though? If you had come from 2-0 to draw or win, do you think his behaviour would have been so violent? Wouldn't a smug grin have sufficed?

It's a bit like I saw (a few years ago) a mum saying to a young boy "how many times *slap* have I told you*slap* not to hit your sister *slap*"

Employing violent aggression is really not the way. Never has been. Never will be.

The fan needs a lengthy ban of course but Vierra getting away unsanctioned just doesn't feel right

There would have been no toffees celebrating in his face if that had happened, though.