[Albion] Vicente under Chris Hughton

[Exile]

This post in the Poyet thread made me think...

There’s no doubt Vicente was the most talented player I’ve seen play for us. But he was more trouble than he was worth - not helped at all by the way Poyet handled him.

... just what would we have got out of Vicente, if he'd played under Chris Hughton?

My view is that the sublimely talented but chronically fragile Vicente was clearly exceptionally high maintenance. I imagine he needed constant attention from the management team - cuddles, sympathy, daily reminders of how lovely and special he was, promises to set things up to get the best from his special talent. Gus Poyet's ego was NEVER going to stand for all that - not a chance.

Now, ignoring that it was almost certainly Gus' self-confidence and charisma that actually persuaded El Punal to come here in the first place, and without that we'd not have had a hope of signing him, just how might things have panned out under a different Amex-era manager?

I think that Oscar and Vicente might well have 'clicked' to the benefit of all, though with the pair of them being rather unstable, there would probably be a train-wreck at the end of it.

Sami would have played him at centre-back or in goal, resulting in permanent 'head's not right' status.

Nathan Jones could have found a way to get the best out of him I think, but would his lack of pedigree / experience have earned him sufficient respect from Vicente for him to listen to his ideas?

Then Chris Hughton - he is clearly a very good man manager. Good enough to have got Vicente on the pitch more than a dozen times a season, and then used his skill to actually AFFECT rather than just EMBELLISH matches?

thoughts?

 

[Simster]

thoughts?

No, none whatsoever.

 

[Exile]

No, none whatsoever.

Thank you for you input.

 

[A1X]

It's a bit of a moot point as Vicente was in a much less technically gifted Brighton team than Hughton has been in charge of. IMHO he might have ended up being a slightly more injury-prone version of Knockaert at best.

 

[Marshy]

Playing in the no10 Gross role.... im drooling already

He would have been sublime

 

[Exile]

It's a bit of a moot point as Vicente was in a much less technically gifted Brighton team than Hughton has been in charge of. IMHO he might have ended up being a slightly more injury-prone version of Knockaert at best.

Plain wrong, I'd say.

If you want to discuss TECHNICALLY GIFTED (rather than strong / athletic / quick / hard-working / anything else...)

Wayne Bridge was FAR more TG than any of our current LB options.
Matt Upson more TG than Duffy
Liam Bridcutt easily comparable (TG) to Stephens
Hell, despite all being as quick as my Mum, Gary Dicker, Andrea Orlandi and Davd Lopez were all blessed in the TG department.

And we all love Anthony Knockaert, but to suggest that Vicente could have been 'AT BEST' a lesser version of him!

Madness.

 

[Commander]

This post in the Poyet thread made me think...



... just what would we have got out of Vicente, if he'd played under Chris Hughton?

My view is that the sublimely talented but chronically fragile Vicente was clearly exceptionally high maintenance. I imagine he needed constant attention from the management team - cuddles, sympathy, daily reminders of how lovely and special he was, promises to set things up to get the best from his special talent. Gus Poyet's ego was NEVER going to stand for all that - not a chance.

Now, ignoring that it was almost certainly Gus' self-confidence and charisma that actually persuaded El Punal to come here in the first place, and without that we'd not have had a hope of signing him, just how might things have panned out under a different Amex-era manager?

I think that Oscar and Vicente might well have 'clicked' to the benefit of all, though with the pair of them being rather unstable, there would probably be a train-wreck at the end of it.

Sami would have played him at centre-back or in goal, resulting in permanent 'head's not right' status.

Nathan Jones could have found a way to get the best out of him I think, but would his lack of pedigree / experience have earned him sufficient respect from Vicente for him to listen to his ideas?

Then Chris Hughton - he is clearly a very good man manager. Good enough to have got Vicente on the pitch more than a dozen times a season, and then used his skill to actually AFFECT rather than just EMBELLISH matches?

thoughts?

Hughton doesn't speak Spanish. He would also want Vicente to track back and defend. End of thread.

 

[Exile]

Hughton doesn't speak Spanish. He would also want Vicente to track back and defend. End of thread.

First point is valid. I'm sure he's worked with plenty of non English speaking players though, in his managerial career.

Second point, not so sure. Vicente, on the rare occasions he could be bothered to actually play at all, worked as hard as anyone.

 

[Da Man Clay]

It's a bit of a moot point as Vicente was in a much less technically gifted Brighton team than Hughton has been in charge of. IMHO he might have ended up being a slightly more injury-prone version of Knockaert at best.

Vicente probably had three times the amount of talent Knockaert does. There is a very good reason Real Madrid were willing to spend £35 milllook on Vicente. Not the same for AK as much as I wish it was.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Vicente was with us for a reason - ie, he was pretty much always injured.

When he was picked, it quite often disrupted the balance of the team. If you put the likes of Xavi in there I reckon the same thing would have happened.

I'm not sure the players we have in the team now would do justice to him either. But at least Chris would manage him better as a person and team member which means he would definitely have been a more valuable asset to us.

 

[Dirk Lehmann's Python]

He's some sort of NSC myth. He had about 4 good games for us, other than that was largely disappointing or injured.

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[Marshy]

He's some sort of NSC myth. He had about 4 good games for us, other than that was largely disappointing or injured.

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Simply the best player i have ever seen in the stripes, and never once dissapointed me when on the pitch for us.

Also would not be supirsed if his falling out with Poyet meant he played way less games than he would have been available for under another manager.

 

[Icy Gull]

. He would also want Vicente to track back and defend. End of thread.

Exactly and for that reason he wouldn’t have even got on the pitch imo

 

[Dirk Lehmann's Python]

Simply the best player i have ever seen in the stripes, and never once dissapointed me when on the pitch for us.

Also would not be supirsed if his falling out with Poyet meant he played way less games than he would have been available for under another manager.

Take it you weren't at West Ham when we lost 6 nil? Palace when he came 9n and we fell apart? Bolton when we stunk the place out and Barnes kicked a ref?

0 0 at Barnsley. 6 1 v Liverpool. Woeful at Blackpool. Do I go on?

Even at home, 2 quality games v Derby and Pompey and a good assist against Leicester...but what else?

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[Is it PotG?]

I feel that his Legend status is in the Flowery Twats mode, 12 episodes or a handful of games and it gets elevated beyond where it should be.

He had a couple of nice touches, but only a couple.

Injuries and commitment questions abound.

 

[Exile]

He's some sort of NSC myth. He had about 4 good games for us, other than that was largely disappointing or injured.

Even though you are obviously CORRECT that his contribution in terms of actual results was minimal...

Simply the best player i have ever seen in the stripes, and never once dissapointed me when on the pitch for us.

..one still has to side with this point of view.

And when I say 'one', obviously I mean 'anyone who actually loves football'.

Andrew Crofts (in first spell) for example, was far more influential than Vicente was. Who dreams of watching a team full of Andrew Crofts, though? How many kids grow up dreaming of being the next Andrew Crofts?

Of course there's 'a myth' about the man. He's the stuff of ****ing LEGEND.

 

[Landgull]

Simply the best player i have ever seen in the stripes, and never once dissapointed me when on the pitch for us.

Also would not be supirsed if his falling out with Poyet meant he played way less games than he would have been available for under another manager.

This.

 

[Kazenga <3]

Even though you are obviously CORRECT that his contribution in terms of actual results was minimal...



..one still has to side with this point of view.

And when I say 'one', obviously I mean 'anyone who actually loves football'.

Andrew Crofts (in first spell) for example, was far more influential than Vicente was. Who dreams of watching a team full of Andrew Crofts, though? How many kids grow up dreaming of being the next Andrew Crofts?

Of course there's 'a myth' about the man. He's the stuff of ****ing LEGEND.

Yep. By and large Vicente's impact was minimal, in no small part due to there not being the same quality and intelligence of runners around him- to this end the player he actually linked best with was undoubtedly Ashley Barnes, which again says a lot about a significant portion of NSC's opinion on that matter...

However every game he played there would be at least a couple of moments where he would do nothing more than a little shimmy of his body which would inexplicably leave his opponent on the ground in a crumpled heap and then proceed to drop an inch perfect pass 40 yards straight on to someone's foot. It was those moments that left you thinking 'Jesus' as the quality was just staggering. Whilst Dunk's long passes are increasingly impressive they have to hit their mark or the ball is out of play, Vicente much like Shaqiri the other night was able to hit them such that they could travel in a straight line over the top and land softly.

The true measure of his class I thought was the fact he was consistently able to see the picture and play these sort of passes before I'd even spotted they were on in the crowd which nobody had done before or since.

 

[Stat Brother]

Also would not be supirsed if his falling out with Poyet meant he played way less games than he would have been available for under another manager.

His career after the Albion would suggest otherwise.

 

[Blackadder]

Take it you weren't at West Ham when we lost 6 nil? Palace when he came 9n and we fell apart? Bolton when we stunk the place out and Barnes kicked a ref?

0 0 at Barnsley. 6 1 v Liverpool. Woeful at Blackpool. Do I go on?

Even at home, 2 quality games v Derby and Pompey and a good assist against Leicester...but what else?

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Whilst I am not disagreeing with you, he did get a cracking goal at Portman Road.