[Football] VAR April 2023 Poll - Fit for Purpose?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have heard it said that VAR get more things right than wrong. Not sure how you test that.
Supporters have always bitched about the referee sometimes justified and sometimes not. Split second decisions are not always the most accurate but watching the EFL Championship they seem to get more right than wrong.
When you have minutes to study an incident from several angles and in slow motion getting a decision wrong is indefensible.
The same laws should apply to all levels of football and that can only mean bin VAR and get those referees sitting in their video hub out on to the pitch and into the real world.

Let's clear the first bit up first. VAR will not be binned.

Second, blaming bad decisions on the excessive length of time taken to make them. Really?

As I have said repeatedly since Saturday, the problem at the weekend was the VAR official spent too little time, mere seconds, making his decision.

The next myth is that VAR is no more accurate than no VAR. I have watched loads of Championship football this season. There have been loads of errors made with goals falsely chalked off or falsely given when the right decision would have certainly been made had VAR been in use. And, guess what? Next season the championship will use VAR. According to some on here this is being done to lend an unfair advantage to the top six. Part of a conspiracy.

The fact is that VAR, like speed limits and drink driving thresholds are here to stay. We simply need to get the rubric to work.

The biggest obstacles are:

1. The on-pitch ref has the final say. This is how we have come to this clear and obvious bollocks.
Solution? Give the VAR ref the final say. He is the one with the tech.
2. The obsession among many fans to not lose a nanosecond of their football enjoyment experience waiting for a VAR decision, and the repeated drone in the media about this. Solution: give the VAR ref adequate but limited time to make the decision. I have mooted 20 sec, but maybe 40 sec is fairer. After that, go with the on field ref's whim. DON'T do what happened on Saturday and tell the ref it was handball when you clearly cannot tell if it was handball. That was an absolute failure of process. And it was the fault of a foolish man, not VAR.

All events that pissed us off yesterday should have been checked. Denial of a goal scoring opportunity (arguably Mitoma's wasn't but I'll park that) and the scoring of a goal. Our chalked off goals were chalked off due to ignorance (the shoulder cannot handle the ball) and haste (the second chalked off goal is not visibly a hand ball so the VAR ref rushed it and made the wrong decision).

Haste and incompetence. There should be no room for this in football refereeing.

But going back to the pre-VAR era, and agitating for this, is a Luddite imperative. May as well petition for the abolition of speed limits. I really can't understand how some people are still clinging on to this pipedream.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think VAR has a place in elite football but it’s become a total farce in England. I really do think the simple idea of giving the benefit of doubt to the attacker would improve things immensely. No more offsides for armpits, Mitoma’s goal would have been given, as would have Welbeck’s.

On these latter two points I have seen multiple slow-mos and it’s difficult to say conclusively either were handball…..no problem just give the benefit to the attacking team. And if one is to actually follow the laws to the letter if you don’t have conclusive proof you can’t give it Anyway.

It needs a mission statement - what function do you want it to serve?

I thought it’s function or mission statement was to prevent the absolute howler, such as Henry’s handball preventing Ireland going to the World Cup, or Lampard’s shot against Germany.

However the English game’s implementation of VAR doesn’t appear to have a mission statement or working parameters. It goes from spending an age measuring to the nearest millimetre offsides to not looking at clear penalties.

Cricket, rugby and tennis have been mentioned and they all had clear mandates, in the case of cricket the technology could never undermine the authority of the umpire. As a result cricket umpiring has improved, umpires make less mistakes and are bolder in giving LBWs because technology has assisted them and they’ve gained confidence through it.

What football seems unable to accept or deal with is a system that is designed not to be perfect and doesn’t seek to be so. Once you take needing you get everything absolutely correct, you probably get to a workable system, but the first step is accepting it cannot be perfect by those that design and work it.

 

[Silverhatch]

What technology?

I appreciate the fact that I’m old, but cameras, angles, transmission, reception, replays at various speeds are technology.

That’s the broadcast technology. Goal Decision System needs technology in the ball and specific cameras. Semi-automated offside has dedicated tracking (not broadcast cameras) and sensors in the ball. Both systems require dedicated support software and real-time, instantaneous reporting systems. In both cases the end result is to remove human interpretation of what is (and isn’t) Clear & Obvious.

VAR in its current format is Shit.

 

[sparkie]

No.

It just needs to be restricted to correct "Clear and obvious" absolute howlers.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Plenty saying that it's those operating it that are the problem not the system itself.

OK then, fair enough. Let's get remove it in it's entirely until we can train officials capable of using it.

 

[paulfuzz]

Let's clear the first bit up first. VAR will not be binned.

Second, blaming bad decisions on the excessive length of time taken to make them. Really?

As I have said repeatedly since Saturday, the problem at the weekend was the VAR official spent too little time, mere seconds, making his decision.

The next myth is that VAR is no more accurate than no VAR. I have watched loads of Championship football this season. There have been loads of errors made with goals falsely chalked off or falsely given when the right decision would have certainly been made had VAR been in use. And, guess what? Next season the championship will use VAR. According to some on here this is being done to lend an unfair advantage to the top six. Part of a conspiracy.

The fact is that VAR, like speed limits and drink driving thresholds are here to stay. We simply need to get the rubric to work.

The biggest obstacles are:

1. The on-pitch ref has the final say. This is how we have come to this clear and obvious bollocks.
Solution? Give the VAR ref the final say. He is the one with the tech.
2. The obsession among many fans to not lose a nanosecond of their football enjoyment experience waiting for a VAR decision, and the repeated drone in the media about this. Solution: give the VAR ref adequate but limited time to make the decision. I have mooted 20 sec, but maybe 40 sec is fairer. After that, go with the on field ref's whim. DON'T do what happened on Saturday and tell the ref it was handball when you clearly cannot tell if it was handball. That was an absolute failure of process. And it was the fault of a foolish man, not VAR.

All events that pissed us off yesterday should have been checked. Denial of a goal scoring opportunity (arguably Mitoma's wasn't but I'll park that) and the scoring of a goal. Our chalked off goals were chalked off due to ignorance (the shoulder cannot handle the ball) and haste (the second chalked off goal is not visibly a hand ball so the VAR ref rushed it and made the wrong decision).

Haste and incompetence. There should be no room for this in football refereeing.

But going back to the pre-VAR era, and agitating for this, is a Luddite imperative. May as well petition for the abolition of speed limits. I really can't understand how some people are still clinging on to this pipedream.

Where did I blame bad decisions on length of time??
Your subjective view of "loads of errors" can equally be levelled at VAR decisions.
I am very much aware that VAR will not go away I just believe that football is better off without it

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Let's clear the first bit up first. VAR will not be binned.

Second, blaming bad decisions on the excessive length of time taken to make them. Really?

As I have said repeatedly since Saturday, the problem at the weekend was the VAR official spent too little time, mere seconds, making his decision.

The next myth is that VAR is no more accurate than no VAR. I have watched loads of Championship football this season. There have been loads of errors made with goals falsely chalked off or falsely given when the right decision would have certainly been made had VAR been in use. And, guess what? Next season the championship will use VAR. According to some on here this is being done to lend an unfair advantage to the top six. Part of a conspiracy.

The fact is that VAR, like speed limits and drink driving thresholds are here to stay. We simply need to get the rubric to work.

The biggest obstacles are:

1. The on-pitch ref has the final say. This is how we have come to this clear and obvious bollocks.
Solution? Give the VAR ref the final say. He is the one with the tech.
2. The obsession among many fans to not lose a nanosecond of their football enjoyment experience waiting for a VAR decision, and the repeated drone in the media about this. Solution: give the VAR ref adequate but limited time to make the decision. I have mooted 20 sec, but maybe 40 sec is fairer. After that, go with the on field ref's whim. DON'T do what happened on Saturday and tell the ref it was handball when you clearly cannot tell if it was handball. That was an absolute failure of process. And it was the fault of a foolish man, not VAR.

All events that pissed us off yesterday should have been checked. Denial of a goal scoring opportunity (arguably Mitoma's wasn't but I'll park that) and the scoring of a goal. Our chalked off goals were chalked off due to ignorance (the shoulder cannot handle the ball) and haste (the second chalked off goal is not visibly a hand ball so the VAR ref rushed it and made the wrong decision).

Haste and incompetence. There should be no room for this in football refereeing.

But going back to the pre-VAR era, and agitating for this, is a Luddite imperative. May as well petition for the abolition of speed limits. I really can't understand how some people are still clinging on to this pipedream.

1. The laws of the game state the on-field ref is ultimately in charge of the game. If this changes, we will soon reach the point where every slightly contentious decision made by the on-field ref will be challenged by the players and management team. Absolute disaster if this happens and it rightly won’t.

2. The ‘obsession’ amongst fans is NOT that they are missing football it is that they are not party to any of the replays and discussion of what is actually being checked. IF VAR is ever to work they absolutely have to broadcast what is going on at Stockley Park. Liverpool and Man Utd should be forced to fit big screens even if it means reducing their capacity.

The simple answer, however, is to bin VAR. it has caused more controversy than it has solved.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Why would you keep something that wasn't fit for purpose? How would you improve it so it was?

I'd keep goal line tech and bin everything else.

I'd start a completely new department for VAR and make sure it's 100% independent from PGMOL.

Involve a couple of retired refs who aren't tainted by the current shitshow (clattenburg springs to mind), some people who understand the technology e.g from the sports broadcasting industry, and get them to train ex-pros from the lower leagues to make decisions (they have to pass multiple aptitude tests to get in)

I reckon it could work quite well but there's too much politics and hierarchy within the current setup, not to mention the rank incompetence.

*edit* agree with above re: transparency. It all needs to be 100% transparent, the working out is as important as the end decision.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Surely there is nothing wrong with VAR as a technology. It’s the officials. The standard of officiating is pretty poor, with inconsistent and incorrect decisions being made every week.

All the while that there is no accountability or transparency we’ll continue to suffer. Officials should be made to explain their decisions in post match interviews. We should be allowed to hear the discussions between VAR officials and the officials on the pitch.

It doesn’t stop with VAR. Our officials are sometimes too petty and often too weak, failing to deal with really poor behaviour on the pitch (bad mouthing, time wasting etc) and then insisting on minor infringements stopping a game, such as a free kick being in a marginally incorrect position in your own defensive half.

We’ve all see some good refereeing performances, but too many poor decisions. If anything VAR has exacerbated this because it puts the decision of the officials more firmly under the spotlight. That said, there are more eyes on the game now and it’s frustrating that they can’t get this right. I’d keep VAR and have a clear out of officials, perhaps even bringing in some from other leagues - let’s do what the PL have done and recruit the best refs.

So kangaroo trials by media every week. Who would want to do the job ? Who do you want to do the job now to replace current ‘weak’ officials ?

 

[Silverhatch]

Let's clear the first bit up first. VAR will not be binned.

Second, blaming bad decisions on the excessive length of time taken to make them. Really?

As I have said repeatedly since Saturday, the problem at the weekend was the VAR official spent too little time, mere seconds, making his decision.

The next myth is that VAR is no more accurate than no VAR. I have watched loads of Championship football this season. There have been loads of errors made with goals falsely chalked off or falsely given when the right decision would have certainly been made had VAR been in use. And, guess what? Next season the championship will use VAR. According to some on here this is being done to lend an unfair advantage to the top six. Part of a conspiracy.

The fact is that VAR, like speed limits and drink driving thresholds are here to stay. We simply need to get the rubric to work.

The biggest obstacles are:

1. The on-pitch ref has the final say. This is how we have come to this clear and obvious bollocks.
Solution? Give the VAR ref the final say. He is the one with the tech.
2. The obsession among many fans to not lose a nanosecond of their football enjoyment experience waiting for a VAR decision, and the repeated drone in the media about this. Solution: give the VAR ref adequate but limited time to make the decision. I have mooted 20 sec, but maybe 40 sec is fairer. After that, go with the on field ref's whim. DON'T do what happened on Saturday and tell the ref it was handball when you clearly cannot tell if it was handball. That was an absolute failure of process. And it was the fault of a foolish man, not VAR.

All events that pissed us off yesterday should have been checked. Denial of a goal scoring opportunity (arguably Mitoma's wasn't but I'll park that) and the scoring of a goal. Our chalked off goals were chalked off due to ignorance (the shoulder cannot handle the ball) and haste (the second chalked off goal is not visibly a hand ball so the VAR ref rushed it and made the wrong decision).

Haste and incompetence. There should be no room for this in football refereeing.

But going back to the pre-VAR era, and agitating for this, is a Luddite imperative. May as well petition for the abolition of speed limits. I really can't understand how some people are still clinging on to this pipedream.

If a process or system in a well run business doesn’t improve a product or service, it is very unusual for there not to be some remedial action. In an entertainment business if a process or system makes the product worse, especially for the most loyal customers who consume the product live, then it’s usually withdrawn, developed, tested and then reimplemented.

VAR does not (currently) have the specific technologies to overcome its shortcomings. It’s being tested in real time with opaque rules and transparency and (in my humble opinion) has made Football a MUCH poorer product and experience. This is absolutely nothing to do with Luddite tendencies. VAR is shit and has been shit since its introduction. Saturday was probably its worst ever showing. It’s not just Albion fans saying this!!

 

[Surf's Up]

The concept of VAR isn't a problem but the practical application of the system clearly is. Because humans are involved in the interpretation of VAR and the subsequent decision making process it is really only a modest improvement on the previous system. This is writ large when the evidence clearly shows one thing but the humans involved either ignore it or interpret it incorrectly.

 

[Guinness Boy]

So kangaroo trials by media every week. Who would want to do the job ? Who do you want to do the job now to replace current ‘weak’ officials ?

Not if they get it correct.

Managers and players have to explain their performance after every game to the media. Why should officials be different?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Let's clear the first bit up first. VAR will not be binned.

Second, blaming bad decisions on the excessive length of time taken to make them. Really?

As I have said repeatedly since Saturday, the problem at the weekend was the VAR official spent too little time, mere seconds, making his decision.

The next myth is that VAR is no more accurate than no VAR. I have watched loads of Championship football this season. There have been loads of errors made with goals falsely chalked off or falsely given when the right decision would have certainly been made had VAR been in use. And, guess what? Next season the championship will use VAR. According to some on here this is being done to lend an unfair advantage to the top six. Part of a conspiracy.

The fact is that VAR, like speed limits and drink driving thresholds are here to stay. We simply need to get the rubric to work.

The biggest obstacles are:

1. The on-pitch ref has the final say. This is how we have come to this clear and obvious bollocks.
Solution? Give the VAR ref the final say. He is the one with the tech.
2. The obsession among many fans to not lose a nanosecond of their football enjoyment experience waiting for a VAR decision, and the repeated drone in the media about this. Solution: give the VAR ref adequate but limited time to make the decision. I have mooted 20 sec, but maybe 40 sec is fairer. After that, go with the on field ref's whim. DON'T do what happened on Saturday and tell the ref it was handball when you clearly cannot tell if it was handball. That was an absolute failure of process. And it was the fault of a foolish man, not VAR.

All events that pissed us off yesterday should have been checked. Denial of a goal scoring opportunity (arguably Mitoma's wasn't but I'll park that) and the scoring of a goal. Our chalked off goals were chalked off due to ignorance (the shoulder cannot handle the ball) and haste (the second chalked off goal is not visibly a hand ball so the VAR ref rushed it and made the wrong decision).

Haste and incompetence. There should be no room for this in football refereeing.

But going back to the pre-VAR era, and agitating for this, is a Luddite imperative. May as well petition for the abolition of speed limits. I really can't understand how some people are still clinging on to this pipedream.

Lots to disagree with there but I will focus on your comparisons. Speeding and drink driving thresholds are binary and measurable. The only comparative in football is goal line technology. Everything else is subjective with varying probabilities of agreement.

Ps it is not Luddite to be of the opinion that this particular technology does not enhance the game.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Where did I blame bad decisions on length of time??
Your subjective view of "loads of errors" can equally be levelled at VAR decisions.
I am very much aware that VAR will not go away I just believe that football is better off without it

You wrote "when you have minutes to study an incident". My comment referred to other posters and VAR opponents on radio phone in who claim the length of time to make a decision is ruining the game. Apologies for not making myself clear. One of the problems this weekend was that the VAR reviews were all rushed.

 

[BNthree]

It’s not VAR but the PMGOL officials that’s the problem.

 

[paulfuzz]

You wrote "when you have minutes to study an incident". My comment referred to other posters and VAR opponents on radio phone in who claim the length of time to make a decision is ruining the game. Apologies for not making myself clear. One of the problems this weekend was that the VAR reviews were all rushed.

Now read the rest of the sentence

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not if they get it correct.

Managers and players have to explain their performance after every game to the media. Why should officials be different?

Let the crowd hear what is going on like cricket, and visuals on the screens.

 

[beorhthelm]

Surely there is nothing wrong with VAR as a technology. It’s the officials. The standard of officiating is pretty poor, with inconsistent and incorrect decisions being made every week.

there isn't really any VAR "technology", its just a referee watching video and some rules around that. it is solely down to the officials, training and accountability need to be changed. several of the controversial decisions didnt need VAR, the ref and linesman fudged up in the first place.

 

[Weststander]

How many people are in the room where the VAR decisions are made and how many have a say in the decisions made? I cannot accept that Mitoma penalty could possibly have been missed with the replays available. VAR is definitely not the problem here, and it’s moronic to say the technology is not fit for purpose, of course it is. Anyone out there who saw the replay of the stamp on Mitoma in doubt it was a penalty? No, because the images from VAR show it was, no argument at all.

As I said on the day, I can ALMOST accept the two disallowed goals but not the Mitoma penalty.

The little shit, I’d guess, simply didn’t deem it a foul worthy of a pen against a top 6 club at home.

He shouldn’t be an official.

The age old thing, if that’s a foul anywhere else on the pitch, then it is in the pen box. Fact.

Most English officials shit themselves over fouls in the box. Including blatant shirt tugging or holding an opponent down so they can’t get a header in.

 

[Baldseagull]

I would like to know how/who decides on behalf of PGMOL that their ref got it wrong and an apology is required? Do they have a committee that decides? Do they tally up the opinions of pundits and reporters? Whatever it is, maybe use that method in the f***ing VAR room during the game.