[NSC] Vaccine passport required to enter Amex

[Kinky Gerbil]

Totally agree with your point that there is no need for future lockdown/restrictions.

However, I do take issue with your statement that you don't care about those who have chosen not to jabbed. I bloody do. Not because of the selfish anti-vax lunatics themselves but because these f*****s are catching covid and ending up in hospitals taking up beds that should now be accommodating those who have been on waiting lists for bloody years. The anti-vax loons are bed blocking....and that ain't right.

Clearly we can't refuse to treat those who have ended up in hospital with covid after refusing the jab but we could, and IMO should, make any anti-vaxer who ends up in hospital with covid pay for their treatment.

Which is why you make their lives as difficult as possible.

Passport to do anything with PCR tests paid for by them to be able to do anything.

Exceptions for those that can’t should be made.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What percentage does it reduce it by for a 19 times a season event that you are in for 2 hours?

How can anybody ever give you that figure ? Vaccination reduces transmission therefore any event held that requires confirmation of vaccination will carry lower risk than one that does not. What’s wrong with providing a social event where the risk of contact with unvaccinated people and people suffering with Covid is lower ? It all helps get the economy moving and people back into society.

 

[highflyer]

What percentage does it reduce it by for a 19 times a season event that you are in for 2 hours?

Not sure exactly what you mean, but I'm talking about reducing overall risk of transmission in society, not about an individual's risk.

My layman's understanding of how the virus spreads is that it is much more about 'clusters' with one person having he opportunity to spread to multiple others (who then go back to many different locations) than it is a about a slow steady spread(as is often implied by, eg the 'r number'). This makes events like football matches (or festivlas etc) quite an important focus for risk reduction. Anything that is done to reduce the risk at such events has a bigger potential impact than reducing risks in a small venue/pub/restaurant.

But I doubt even the most expert epidemiologist would attempt to put a number to these risks. The only sensible strategy to me is to do what seems reasonable, based on what we know and adjust actions as the data emerges. I am in favour of keeping society as open as possible, but I think vaccine passports have a role in doing that, for now at least.

 

[Clive Walker]

any further lockdown would be in an effort to reduce hospital admissions for those that are not double jabbed.

now I know that some people can't have the jab for good reason but I would be immensely f*****d off if I am put back into lockdown to protect a few morons who doubt the validity of the vaccine, They made their choice and took the risk, why should we all minimise that risk on their behalf when they didn't give a sh*t prior.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

How can anybody ever give you that figure ? Vaccination reduces transmission therefore any event held that requires confirmation of vaccination will carry lower risk than one that does not. What’s wrong with providing a social event where the risk of contact with unvaccinated people and people suffering with Covid is lower ? It all helps get the economy moving and people back into society.

What’s wrong with doing it for everything?

That will do everything you have said much better than 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon.

Especially as it’s aimed at the anti vaxers.

 

[highflyer]

any further lockdown would be in an effort to reduce hospital admissions for those that are not double jabbed.

now I know that some people can't have the jab for good reason but I would be immensely f*****d off if I am put back into lockdown to protect a few morons who doubt the validity of the vaccine, They made their choice and took the risk, why should we all minimise that risk on their behalf when they didn't give a sh*t prior.

It's certainly annoying.

But the only other options would be mandatory vaccination for everyone (which personally i'd find hard to stomach) or refusal to treat unvaccinated covid patients - which (rightly) isn't going to happen. Looking after people who are victims of their own stupidity is one of the hallmarks of a civilized society.

 

[highflyer]

What’s wrong with doing it for everything?

That will do everything you have said much better than 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon.

Especially as it’s aimed at the anti vaxers.

Hands up - I'm not quite sure what I am arguing about anymore, or if we are at cross porpoises.

But I imagine the 'doing it for everything' option was considered and rejected partly on basis of what's reasonable (in terms of what people WANT to do vs what people HAVE to do), partly on balance of risk (as above - target potential 'superspreader' events) and partly on logistical basis. It's one thing to check vaccines at entrances to one major venue - checking everyone that gets on a nd off public transport ecah day would be another level altogether.

So don't make perfect the enemy of good and all that.

 

[rippleman]

It's certainly annoying.

But the only other options would be mandatory vaccination for everyone (which personally i'd find hard to stomach) or refusal to treat unvaccinated covid patients - which (rightly) isn't going to happen. Looking after people who are victims of their own stupidity is one of the hallmarks of a civilized society.

But no reason not to charge them for their treatment eh?

 

[highflyer]

But no reason not to charge them for their treatment eh?

Again, tempting but I would strongly disagree with doing that.

It sets a precedent.

Do we charge smokers,drug takers, fat people, risk takers, rugby players...where does that end?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Hands up - I'm not quite sure what I am arguing about anymore, or if we are at cross porpoises.

But I imagine the 'doing it for everything' option was considered and rejected partly on basis of what's reasonable (in terms of what people WANT to do vs what people HAVE to do), partly on balance of risk (as above - target potential 'superspreader' events) and partly on logistical basis. It's one thing to check vaccines at entrances to one major venue - checking everyone that gets on a nd off public transport ecah day would be another level altogether.

So don't make perfect the enemy of good and all that.

I think we are on the same page.

I just want it done more.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What’s wrong with doing it for everything?

That will do everything you have said much better than 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon.

Especially as it’s aimed at the anti vaxers.

Completely agree. So we should be agitating for extension of the passport scheme rather than contraction. Asking football to drop it would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

 

[Albion Dan]

Complete rubbish. Antibodies diminish over time naturally. That's how it's supposed to work, otherwise the body would be working to fight off infection all the time. That's why we have t cells and b cells.

Vaccinated people recover quicker and are also less likely to pass on Covid. There is far less hospitalisation as well.

Than someone with effective anti bodies from covid recovery? Where is the proof of that? Anti bodies diminish as do vaccine shots.

 

[golddene]

It's certainly annoying.

But the only other options would be mandatory vaccination for everyone (which personally i'd find hard to stomach) or refusal to treat unvaccinated covid patients - which (rightly) isn't going to happen. Looking after people who are victims of their own stupidity is one of the hallmarks of a civilized society.

I agree with your post but would also like to add that from all the data I have read viruses mutate more and more with the amount of transmission, therefore rightly or wrongly in my opinion the more anti vaxxers refuse to have the vaccine the more likely it is for the strains to alter and possibly make previously inoculated people not protected against and consequently to be endangered from these mutations, (please someone correct me if I am wrong here)

 

[Albion Dan]

I agree with your post but would also like to add that from all the data I have read viruses mutate more and more with the amount of transmission, therefore rightly or wrongly in my opinion the more anti vaxxers refuse to have the vaccine the more likely it is for the strains to alter and possibly make previously inoculated people not protected against and consequently to be endangered from these mutations, (please someone correct me if I am wrong here)

This is flawed logic imo. It is now obvious that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, hundreds of thousands of vaccinated people are catching covid, so the risk you have described exists regardless of vaccine or not. In fact is there a risk that the virus is more likely to mutate to try and combat the vaccine as it passes from vaccinated person to vaccinated person?

 

[A1X]

I agree with your post but would also like to add that from all the data I have read viruses mutate more and more with the amount of transmission, therefore rightly or wrongly in my opinion the more anti vaxxers refuse to have the vaccine the more likely it is for the strains to alter and possibly make previously inoculated people not protected against and consequently to be endangered from these mutations, (please someone correct me if I am wrong here)

Very often they're the same people who spent the previous 12 months arguing there shouldn't be lockdown as well. So it seems not only are they against lockdown but also against the only realistic means by which we aren't in lockdown short of burying our heads in the sand and just assuming everything's fine.

 

[e77]

This is flawed logic imo. It is now obvious that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, hundreds of thousands of vaccinated people are catching covid, so the risk you have described exists regardless of vaccine or not. In fact is there a risk that the virus is more likely to mutate to try and combat the vaccine as it passes from vaccinated person to vaccinated person?

Vaccines don't eliminate onward transmission but the do reduce the chance of it happening.

 

[golddene]

This is flawed logic imo. It is now obvious that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, hundreds of thousands of vaccinated people are catching covid, so the risk you have described exists regardless of vaccine or not. In fact is there a risk that the virus is more likely to mutate to try and combat the vaccine as it passes from vaccinated person to vaccinated person?

We double jabbers (treble soon, due to the possibility of protection waning) are supposedly according to the science less likely to contract higher viral loading due to our bodies primed immune system and therefore less likely to become seriously ill, though I'm sure there will be some cases due to the fact that No vaccine has ever given 100% protection but by being prepared for the greater good of society to protect ourselves and in so doing protect others we have taken the decision to have the offered vaccination.
As for vaccinated people being 'more likely' to pass on mutated strains I would like to see the science behind your opinion, sounds to me more likely to be yet another conspiracy theory propagated by some. I have 'friends' who are Covid deniers/anti jabbers and this sounds just like another of their 'rabbit holes' they continue to try to convince others to follow them down.......... if I were really that stupid

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Than someone with effective anti bodies from covid recovery? Where is the proof of that? Anti bodies diminish as do vaccine shots.

There are loads of studies showing precisely that, they are easily found. I understand you are against vaccination though so I'll leave it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This is flawed logic imo. It is now obvious that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, hundreds of thousands of vaccinated people are catching covid, so the risk you have described exists regardless of vaccine or not. In fact is there a risk that the virus is more likely to mutate to try and combat the vaccine as it passes from vaccinated person to vaccinated person?

Some facts for you;

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

 

[Albion Dan]

There are loads of studies showing precisely that, they are easily found. I understand you are against vaccination though so I'll leave it.

I am vaccinated against my will because I had to travel to Europe for work. I am totally against vaccine coercion where people are entitled to be cautious of an experimental drug. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can walk from my job.