US election (merged threads)

[BigGully]

In order to have "a good fight", I'd need somebody with the intellect to put forward reasoned arguments against me. There are plenty out there; off the top of my head:- JC Football Genius, Westdene, that fierce pro-Brexit socialist fella in Bristol, and many others. It's just that you and Soulman add nothing I'm afraid. Never have, never will. You continue your circle jerk if you like though. My prediction is that at some point in the next few months, you'll forget who he is and say something inappropriately condescending whilst saying nothing yourself. He'll then tell you to "grow up" in response.

Ha ha, you took the bait, I was only joking, best we both move on ............ I can see the nerdy gang has turned up !!

 

[Simster]

Ha ha, you took the bait, I was only joking, best we both move on ............ I can see the nerdy gang has turned up !!

Bait? I thought I didn't hang around long enough for a fight, and now it seems you want to move on. More drivel dressed up as intellectual superiority from you then - who'd have thought it?

 

[Pantani]

why does it give that impression? is the electoral college hidden, or not understood? or is it just simply overlooked so that people misunderstand the process.

Of course the electoral college is not hidden, everyone understands the process at the beginning. However that does not make it right. Democracy is equal votes per person, the electoral college does not give that.

and a voter in Florida does not have infinity more worth than California. their worth can be measured in number of voters per electoral vote, which does indeed differ state to state, but is about the same between those large states and ironically favours the smaller states. what happens is that state vote assign their electoral votes as a block vote, and not in proportion to the votes cast. so winning the states with large numbers by a slim margin has more significance than some other places that are substantial majority for or against.

Yes, I understand how it works. The reason Californian and Texan votes are worth less is because their electoral college always ends with the same result, democrat and republican respectively. An extra vote for either in these states is not worth the same as an extra vote in a swing state like Florida. That is undemocratic. Florida has been won by margins of less than six points in every election since 1996 (which is as far back as I can find).

Why do you think Clinton and Trump prioritised campaigning in Florida and the rust belt states? Because those votes are more important. Therefore those votes ARE worth more. They must be, because Trump won with less votes than Clinton, that cannot happen unless some votes are worth more than others.

 

[Soulman]

In order to have "a good fight", I'd need somebody with the intellect to put forward reasoned arguments against me. There are plenty out there; off the top of my head:- JC Football Genius, Westdene, that fierce pro-Brexit socialist fella in Bristol, and many others. It's just that you and Soulman add nothing I'm afraid. Never have, never will. You continue your circle jerk if you like though. My prediction is that at some point in the next few months, you'll forget who he is and say something inappropriately condescending whilst saying nothing yourself. He'll then tell you to "grow up" in response.

A very high opinion of yourself. Bordering on smug.

 

[W.C.]

Certainly here :-

[yt]htOj50B7dNk[/YT]

Clever you, you found another youtube video.

 

[W.C.]

You spend a month solid on identity politics and smear campaigns regardless of who wins they will be seen as evil incarnate, ok let them blow of steam, if they go to far its skull cracking time.

To many sheeple on here led by the MSM, they kept this quiet..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-holds-high-flag-gay-equality/

But you hate the gays Looney, must have irked you.

 

[crookie]

Are US Presidential elections democratic? The person who got the most votes did not win.

Their electoral college system really is a complete nonsense. If you look at Clinton and Trumps movements over the last weeks of the campaign, they basically just folowed each other around the same key states trying to woo a small section of the country. Leaving voters in Alabama, Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Maryland etc etc completely disenfranchised. The votes of the people in these states are pretty irrelevant to who will get elected as President. THAT is undemocratic, and it is worth protesting about.

nb. a lot of these states are Republican, so this is not just about left v right.

Same as the 400+ odd safe seats at a GE in the UK. Most of our votes are wasted too, and we know it before we even vote.

 

[sully]

Same as the 400+ odd safe seats at a GE in the UK. Most of our votes are wasted too, and we know it before we even vote.

Indeed. Living in Mid Sussex and Arundel / South Downs constituencies most of my adult life, my vote has been a waste of time pretty much every time I've used it.

 

[brightn'ove]

A very high opinion of yourself. Bordering on smug.

Grow up

 

[BigGully]

Bait? I thought I didn't hang around long enough for a fight, and now it seems you want to move on. More drivel dressed up as intellectual superiority from you then - who'd have thought it?

How did you deduce from my post, which was childish at best, as dressed up 'as intellectual superiority' ?

 

[El Presidente]

I think everyone's taking this too far.

When are people going to change the subject?

I'll try.

I firmly believe that you can fit quicker than a Kwik FIt fitter.

There. I've said it.

 

[symyjym]

What this all this means collectively is a change in the world order from a unipolar world to a multipolar world with several global players emerging all pursuing their own self interest. We already see Russia prodding at the cracks in the US and allied forces commitment to action in the middle east and starting to flex its military muscle more and more. Expect to see more of this from Russia and the likes of China as the barriers to trade start to go up. Expect to see cracks in the relationship between European countries start to grow wider. The problem: a multi-polar world is less stable and more prone to conflict, it leads to increased suspicion of others motives, weapons proliferation and arms races, military alliances over economic ones. I hope that I am wrong but this cycle has happened throughout history time and time again.

The problem is that we have been brought up to believe that Russia is the enemy, and the US are using Europe as a base in their psychological imaginary war with them. Does anyone really believe that Russia wants to invade Europe let alone nuke us?

Russia has been forced into the Middle East by the West because we destabilised a country which is a partner to it. For some stupid reason the west expected Assad to hand over his military, supplied by Russia, to Sunni Wahhabists. For the last 15 years the west has caused far more problems in the world than Russia has.

It’s not Russia flexing its muscle as a display of strength, it is in Syria as a duty, on principle, and within international law. Syria has been invaded by mercenaries from the very start of the so called civil war, later understood to be a failed coup plotted by the US, UK, France, Turkey and Sunni state backers. I don't see Russia as the problem in Syria.

I expect Trump to not engage with, or supply weapons to the Sunni Wahhabists rebels in Syria and will certainly not raise their false hopes which has motivated them so far.

At the end of the day the Middle East is on Russia’s doorstep, not the US’s, and it is on Europe’s doorstep too. Trump will align with Russia in Syria, and I believe Europe should do too, rather than warmonger from the sidelines as we have been for the last five years.

I think you have a slightly pessimistic view on the future and I don’t see any disadvantage with having closer ties with Russia economically and on Middle East policy.

 

[JCL666]

this is an interesting read.

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/his...ext-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.z1xicm9ih

 

[highflyer]

When Trump thought Mitt Romney had won the popular vote (disclaimer - I picked this up from the internet so there is a possibility it may not be real)




Everyone has the right to protest and there is plenty to protest about with regard to having Trump as your President elect without having to dispute the outcome of the election. He has admitted to sexual assault, refused to release his tax returns, boasted about his tax avoidance and lied, lied and lied again to win this election. I find the election results scary, partly because of the implications of Trump in the White house and where that may end up (Hitler also obtained power via a democratic process) but also because the way he got here has undermined so many of the values that enable a liberal democracy to work. And that does not bode well for the future. I suspect all will be well in the end, but America just took a massive massive risk in my view.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It really IS a mirror image of post-Brexit vote times ten. Or maybe times a hundred. Same currency crash when the big bucks FX gamblers cash in, followed by the inevitable rebound and subsequent volatility. Same Diana Moment hysteria with precious souls vowing to flee to Canada/Australia (they won't). Same 'Not In My Name' hashtags and city marches. Same 'all pollsters are wankers'. Same embittered social media onslaught for the foreseeable from the losing side. Same sense is that democracy is great as long as your side wins. And then life resumes pretty much as normal. Seriously, you have to laugh or else you'd CRY.

 

[symyjym]

https://twitter.com/AnitaBryants/status/796680657284071424

Nise arse

 

[JCL666]

This is a bit longer but also very interesting.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

 

[GOM]

Are US Presidential elections democratic? The person who got the most votes did not win.

Their electoral college system really is a complete nonsense. If you look at Clinton and Trumps movements over the last weeks of the campaign, they basically just folowed each other around the same key states trying to woo a small section of the country. Leaving voters in Alabama, Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Maryland etc etc completely disenfranchised. The votes of the people in these states are pretty irrelevant to who will get elected as President. THAT is undemocratic, and it is worth protesting about.

nb. a lot of these states are Republican, so this is not just about left v right.

There are different forms of democracy. It is also quite feasible that the same could happen in this country, with the winning party securing less votes than the losing party.

Their electoral college is actually quite similar to our system, except we call ours constituencies, and they call their's states. Winner takes all in either a constituency or a state.

Also we have a few swing constituencies as well that the parties concentrate on.

So all in all not that dissimilar

 

[Megazone]

I'll try.

I firmly believe that you can fit quicker than a Kwik FIt fitter.

There. I've said it.

Actually, I've proven this to be true and I believe my ability is a natural gift which I believe I'm truly blessed with.

One day, you too will be able to perform similar divine skills. Just keep following the master my young maestro.

There. I've spoken. Remember this. You will go far and one day humour will be at your presence.

 

[highflyer]

It really IS a mirror image of post-Brexit vote times ten. Or maybe times a hundred. Same currency crash when the big bucks FX gamblers cash in, followed by the inevitable rebound and subsequent volatility. Same Diana Moment hysteria with precious souls vowing to flee to Canada/Australia (they won't). Same 'Not In My Name' hashtags and city marches. Same 'all pollsters are wankers'. Same embittered social media onslaught for the foreseeable from the losing side. Same sense is that democracy is great as long as your side wins. And then life resumes pretty much as normal. Seriously, you have to laugh or else you'd CRY.

I voted remain but was pretty sanguine about the result (well - compared to most around me anyway). I thought it was a bit stupid and embarrassing of us, but the world wasn't going to end as a result and could understand why it had happened.

I am genuinely scared by the possible implications of Trump in the White house.

I happen to believe climate change is real, just for starters.