[Technology] University Technical College

[Thunder Bolt]

The UTC in Newhaven is to close, as it only has 47 pupils out of a capacity of 600.

This is such a shame, imo, as we need technical trained youngsters as well as academic. The courses were science, technology, engineering, maths and computing.

http://www.utc-harbourside.org/

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1632...in-newhaven-has-announced-it-will-close-down/

It was one of the few good things that had happened in Newhaven recently. I know everyone likes to be snobby and run down the town, but technical education is important.

 

[Gwylan]

We were thinking of sending our son there as he struggles with arts subjects and likes science and technology.

The whole world is educating their kids in STEM subjects and we have a government dominated by arts graduates. I despair, I really do

 

[BNthree]

Curious where the £14 million in state funded assets will end up, back in local education pot?

Could have been such a good thing for Newhaven, why did it fail so miserably?

 

[Goldstone1976]

We were thinking of sending our son there as he struggles with arts subjects and likes science and technology.

The whole world is educating their kids in STEM subjects and we have a government dominated by arts graduates. I despair, I really do

A Government, a national broadcaster, a civil service and the national press... all dominated by Arts graduates.

Melvyn Bragg does the mostly excellent "In our Time" programme, where he asks intelligent, erudite questions of the panel on every subject, except STEM, where he turns into a gibbering wreck. Worse, he seems to positively revel in his ignorance.

 

[Gwylan]

A Government, a national broadcaster, a civil service and the national press... all dominated by Arts graduates.

Melvyn Bragg does the mostly excellent "In our Time" programme, where he asks intelligent, erudite questions of the panel on every subject, except STEM, where he turns into a gibbering wreck. Worse, he seems to positively revel in his ignorance.

That's common: I've heard people boast about being hopeless at maths - you'll never hear someone boast about being illiterate.

I don't know if it's still true but last year I saw a shocking statistic: that there'd been more footballers than scientists on Question Time in the previous year

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We were thinking of sending our son there as he struggles with arts subjects and likes science and technology.

The whole world is educating their kids in STEM subjects and we have a government dominated by arts graduates. I despair, I really do

I agree.

They're not even taking in new pupils in September despite an Open day due very soon.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Not surprised, did a couple of days supply there back in 2015 and I've never come across such a poorly run school. They lacked a number of permanent subject teachers particularly engineering which was being taught by an untrained teacher who had originally applied to be the technician.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not surprised, did a couple of days supply there back in 2015 and I've never come across such a poorly run school. They lacked a number of permanent subject teachers particularly engineering which was being taught by an untrained teacher who had originally applied to be the technician.

There is discussion on the Newhaven page on Facebook, that the college was the sweetener to allow the incinerator to be built, but lots of promises never kept. Purely speculation, of course, but what a wasted opportunity.

 

[beorhthelm]

A Government, a national broadcaster, a civil service and the national press... all dominated by Arts graduates.

i was going to point out the same. its not just "government" but all political and social elites. it broadly applies to business too, the C-level is dominated by arts or economics graduates, usually backgrounds in sales, marketing or finance streams, even in engineering and technology companies. trouble is partly with engineers and scientist who would, generally, rather get on and do stuff rather than all that messing around with people and politics.

 

[Goldstone1976]

i was going to point out the same. its not just "government" but all political and social elites. it broadly applies to business too, the C-level is dominated by arts or economics graduates, usually backgrounds in sales, marketing or finance streams, even in engineering and technology companies. trouble is partly with engineers and scientist who would, generally, rather get on and do stuff rather than all that messing around with people and politics.

Generally, the companies I run are bleeding-edge engineering and/or science consulting companies. My experience is that, as a gross generalisation, the engineers/scientists (mostly, 50-70% of the staff are PhD-level) ignore the business aspects in their pursuit of doing stuff. They tend not to want to do such things as selling, asking the customer if they have any money for the project they want a proposal for, preparing additional proposals when the customer asks for more work than was quoted etc. You know - the things that have to be done if payroll is to be paid.

There are some notable exceptions, but my experience is that engineers/scientists don't make particularly good business people. Absolutely fundamental to a successful engineering consultancy though, of course. No engineering/science = no business.

Horses for courses.

Disclaimer (not that you'll need it): yep - I came up through a finance and sales background. However, unlike most with my background, I did do a p/t engineering degree course while MD of the first engineering company...just to show willing.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Generally, the companies I run are bleeding-edge engineering and/or science consulting companies. My experience is that, as a gross generalisation, the engineers/scientists (mostly, 50-70% of the staff are PhD-level) ignore the business aspects in their pursuit of doing stuff. They tend not to want to do such things as selling, asking the customer if they have any money for the project they want a proposal for, preparing additional proposals when the customer asks for more work than was quoted etc. You know - the things that have to be done if payroll is to be paid.

There are some notable exceptions, but my experience is that engineers/scientists don't make particularly good business people. Absolutely fundamental to a successful engineering consultancy though, of course. No engineering/science = no business.

Horses for courses.

Disclaimer (not that you'll need it): yep - I came up through a finance and sales background. However, unlike most with my background, I did do a p/t engineering degree course while MD of the first engineering company...just to show willing.

As someone who spent quite a long time 'training' mainly business students but who had a brief spell teaching business stuff to engineering students, I concur with this. The latter didn't show a great deal more interest or engagement in business than business students would show in engineering. Not sure how to solve this one but we do tend to separate our young people form quite an early age. (Or perhaps we should just get ourselves some better teachers of business!)

 

[Gwylan]

it broadly applies to business too, the C-level is dominated by arts or economics graduates, usually backgrounds in sales, marketing or finance streams, even in engineering and technology companies.

I don't know which companies you've been talking to but I've met 100s of senior execs in the IT space and I'd say that 90% of them have a science or technology background. Just look at the people who set up the big tech companies: Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Apple, Oracle, Facebook etc - all techies.

But you're right about business as a whole - far too many arts graduates

 

[BNthree]

The picture accompanying the Argus story is hilarious, staff look over the moon it's closing!

 

[BN9 BHA]

View attachment 98274

The picture accompanying the Argus story is hilarious, staff look over the moon it's closing!

Argus digs out the first picture they could find of the college, one from the day it opened I guess.

 

[spongy]

Generally, the companies I run are bleeding-edge engineering and/or science consulting companies. My experience is that, as a gross generalisation, the engineers/scientists (mostly, 50-70% of the staff are PhD-level) ignore the business aspects in their pursuit of doing stuff. They tend not to want to do such things as selling, asking the customer if they have any money for the project they want a proposal for, preparing additional proposals when the customer asks for more work than was quoted etc. You know - the things that have to be done if payroll is to be paid.

There are some notable exceptions, but my experience is that engineers/scientists don't make particularly good business people. Absolutely fundamental to a successful engineering consultancy though, of course. No engineering/science = no business.

Horses for courses.

Disclaimer (not that you'll need it): yep - I came up through a finance and sales background. However, unlike most with my background, I did do a p/t engineering degree course while MD of the first engineering company...just to show willing.

I agree 100%.

It's exactly the same at my company. The boss doesn't run things. The production manager does.

We've got a customer that has "wangled" his way into being mates with my boss. So he's convincing my boss to do work way above and over what he actually pays us to do.

We've got a big projectt on at the moment involving iPhone security holders. But designing for them is a pain because of their shape and being Teflon coated.

So I'm at work doing r&d on these things. We haven't even got an order for them. This customer is getting £000's in free r&d work.

Plus it's pulling me away from my normal stuff which is driving my production manager mental but I'm stuck right in the middle. Can't say no to the big boss. Then get moaned at because I'm not doing my normal cutting and folding by the production manager.

My big boss' way to do things is normally the more complicated and long winded route.

He generally just gets in people's way and pulls staff off their current task to do something trivial and unimportant because he fancies doing something else.

It's a complete shit shower way to run a company but it seems to make enough money. The place could be a gold mine if it was run properly and we only did work that we quoted instead of never ending extras or finishing.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I agree 100%.

It's exactly the same at my company. The boss doesn't run things. The production manager does.

We've got a customer that has "wangled" his way into being mates with my boss. So he's convincing my boss to do work way above and over what he actually pays us to do.

We've got a big projectt on at the moment involving iPhone security holders. But designing for them is a pain because of their shape and being Teflon coated.

So I'm at work doing r&d on these things. We haven't even got an order for them. This customer is getting £000's in free r&d work.

Plus it's pulling me away from my normal stuff which is driving my production manager mental but I'm stuck right in the middle. Can't say no to the big boss. Then get moaned at because I'm not doing my normal cutting and folding by the production manager.

My big boss' way to do things is normally the more complicated and long winded route.

He generally just gets in people's way and pulls staff off their current task to do something trivial and unimportant because he fancies doing something else.

It's a complete shit shower way to run a company but it seems to make enough money. The place could be a gold mine if it was run properly and we only did work that we quoted instead of never ending extras or finishing.

Yep. Would I be correct in thinking the big boss owns the company (or at least has a majority shareholding)?

I tend to get called in when the company's finances are heading down the toilet by (sometimes) the Chairman, more often the VC or PE house that has been blown away by the science/technology, but neglected to do proper commercial due diligence.

Often, the company can be saved; occasionally not - especially if it's left too late.

 

[spongy]

Yep. Would I be correct in thinking the big boss owns the company (or at least has a majority shareholding)?

I tend to get called in when the company's finances are heading down the toilet by (sometimes) the Chairman, more often the VC or PE house that has been blown away by the science/technology, but neglected to do proper commercial due diligence.

Often, the company can be saved; occasionally not - especially if it's left too late.

Yeah he owns the lot. Everything. Including the building.

Victoria Road in Burgess hill is slowly being turned into a housing estate now. Next door is next to go. I've heard rumours that the council want our building. Don't know whether there's a compulsory purchase order on the place or not. I know he started looking at new premises but that soon ended. The trouble is is that HE does what HE wants to be done. Completely irrespe give of whether it's a waste of time or completely unnecessary.

I can be in the middle of a massive shunt of material on the forks trying to get to material stored behind his personal crap for his land rover. I can be on the last move to get to where I need to be and he will shout down the workshop that he needs the forks. NOW. You can explain until youre blue that it'll take just 30 seconds to get it out but he will insist that you put it all back so he can have them right then. So we waste 15 mins putting it all back so he can use them for 20 seconds. Then start the whole process again.

Never mind the fact that the laser will now be idle for 40 minutes rather than the 20 it was going to be.

The bloke is a ****ing clown. But he owns it. He pays the wages so what can you do??

If he sees you doing something he doesn't agree with he tries to bellow at people. DONT DO IT LIKE THAT! STOP ABUSING MY MACHINERY!!! Even though what we are doing is not wrong. It's just not how he wants us to do it.

It's really frustrating. Could be such a brilliant company to work at. Instead it's just reasonably good.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Yeah he owns the lot. Everything. Including the building.

Victoria Road in Burgess hill is slowly being turned into a housing estate now. Next door is next to go. I've heard rumours that the council want our building. Don't know whether there's a compulsory purchase order on the place or not. I know he started looking at new premises but that soon ended. The trouble is is that HE does what HE wants to be done. Completely irrespe give of whether it's a waste of time or completely unnecessary.

I can be in the middle of a massive shunt of material on the forks trying to get to material stored behind his personal crap for his land rover. I can be on the last move to get to where I need to be and he will shout down the workshop that he needs the forks. NOW. You can explain until youre blue that it'll take just 30 seconds to get it out but he will insist that you put it all back so he can have them right then. So we waste 15 mins putting it all back so he can use them for 20 seconds. Then start the whole process again.

Never mind the fact that the laser will now be idle for 40 minutes rather than the 20 it was going to be.

The bloke is a ****ing clown. But he owns it. He pays the wages so what can you do??

If he sees you doing something he doesn't agree with he tries to bellow at people. DONT DO IT LIKE THAT! STOP ABUSING MY MACHINERY!!! Even though what we are doing is not wrong. It's just not how he wants us to do it.

It's really frustrating. Could be such a brilliant company to work at. Instead it's just reasonably good.

You have my sympathies. If it’s any consolation (it won’t be), there are literally thousands of UK SMEs run by owners which could be 2-5 times as good if their owners only recognised their limitations and got a professional to run it for them. Such a waste.

 

[drew]

Not surprising really. Only 47 pupils so no wonder it isn't viable. Doesn't mean the courses won't be available elsewhere.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Announced before the publication of an Ofsted report too. Suggests it wasn't good.