[Albion] United's First Goal

[peterward]

Accepting the result is now done and it was a day of shocking officiating. Jut how did United's first goal stand? and why wasn't VAR consulted?

It was both offside by 2 or 3 Man U players and a clear foul on Dunk, both of which should have been evident with a missing VAR review.

Taken from the sky highlights, freeze frame at the second Fernandes strikes the ball (first pic you can see clearly by cut of darker rolled green grass pattern that runs exactly perpendicular to the 6 yard box) that Both Connolly and Trossard, nearest ball are slightly upfield of the 6 yard line as ball is struck, as is March towards back end of 6 yard box. So neither of those 3 are playing anyone onside who is stepping over the 6 yard line as the ball is struck.



Looking at the exact same freeze frame from a different angle at second Fernandes hits the ball, The player most nearest goal and effectively the last Albion man is Lallana with one foot bang on line, Both Rashford and Maguire 2 handed holding Dunk are both clearly offside with feet in offiside positions. Maguire more so.



Watch the Sky highlights and the replay of their first goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3tWXvGWtqk

Stop video at exactly 0:50, then just watch Maguire with both arms around Dunk and nothing else as the ball is played across, he's literally moving him around, holding with both arms throughout the whole move, and then throws him over before just ball hits hits Dunks toe.

All resolved easily with VAR (as was the case after final whistle) So why wasnt it?

I get it changes nothing with the result, but these VAR use inconsistencies are valid questions.

1) An offside goal with a foul given with no VAR used
2) A 4th official breaching rules and telling ref what he thinks whilst only showing one angle.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Accepting the result is now done and it was a day of shocking officiating. Jut how did United's first goal stand? and why wasn't VAR consulted?

It was both offside by 2 or 3 Man U players and a clear foul on Dunk, both of which should have been evident with a missing VAR review.

Taken from the sky highlights, freeze frame at the second Fernandes strikes the ball (first pic you can see clearly by cut of darker rolled green grass pattern that runs exactly perpendicular to the 6 yard box) that Both Connolly and Trossard, nearest ball are slightly upfield of the 6 yard line as ball is struck, as is March towards back end of 6 yard box. So neither of those 3 are playing anyone onside who is stepping over the 6 yard line as the ball is struck.

View attachment 128816

Looking at the exact same freeze frame from a different angle at second Fernandes hits the ball, The player most nearest goal and effectively the last Albion man is Lallana with one foot bang on line, Both Rashford and Maguire 2 handed holding Dunk are both clearly offside with feet in offiside positions. Maguire more so.

View attachment 128820

Watch the Sky highlights and the replay of their first goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3tWXvGWtqk

Stop video at exactly 0:50, then just watch Maguire with both arms around Dunk and nothing else as the ball is played across, he's literally moving him around, holding with both arms throughout the whole move, and then throws him over before just ball hits hits Dunks toe.

All resolved easily with VAR (as was the case after final whistle) So why wasnt it?

I get it changes nothing with the result, but these VAR use inconsistencies are valid questions.

1) An offside goal with a foul given with no VAR used
2) A 4th official breaching rules and telling ref what he thinks whilst only showing one angle.

Sometimes they go in our favour, today they didn't.

Villa stayed up and Bournemouth went down because of a mistake last season. They happen.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Top emoting but....let it go.

 

[Jeremiah]

Roll back the video and it was an extremely silly and weak free kick to give away.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Foul aside those two offside players do not play the ball from the cross so are not offside.

Wasn't that what Burn's goal last season (v Plucky) was chalked off to though - an offside about 5 hours before the ball hit the net?

 

[peterward]

Sometimes they go in our favour, today they didn't.

Villa stayed up and Bournemouth went down because of a mistake last season. They happen.

I get that dude, but in the case of Villa last season, they were relying on goal line technology that for first time had a head wobble.

It seems every goal of every game has to await a VAR review to validate it, especially from dead balls, I don't get why that wasn't done?, or if it was done without announcing it how it failed to pick up 2 reasons why the goal shouldn't stand?.

There was no review of it which is questionable.

Hope it does even out and cant change result, but in the era of VAR, don't understand why it is applied/used so selectively?

That goal wouldnt have stood the other way around.

 

[peterward]

Wasn't that what Burn's goal last season was chalked off to though - an offside about 5 hours before the ball hit the net?

yes it was.

and [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION], Maguire the most offside is very much active as hes man handling Dunk the whole time before throwing him over (where ball stikes Dunks foot as he's falling/Maguire kicks through him).

Maguire is offside and effectively the goal scorer.

 

[Washie]

Yet it's the player who is onside at the back of them that is the one who played the ball.

 

[Seasidesage]

Look we wuz robbed. Everybody who saw the game will know that but micro analysing every small part of it is not going to change the result its just going to give other teams fans a laugh. These things happen its just happened to WBA in their game and to the Pikeys too. (Obviously it was funny in their case) it won't change now. Ref's come from generations of wrong un's everybody knows this.....Let it go.

 

[On The Up]

I get that dude, but in the case of Villa last season, they were relying on goal line technology that for first time had a head wobble.

It seems every goal of every game has to await a VAR review to validate it, especially from dead balls, I don't get why that wasn't done?, or if it was done without announcing it how it failed to pick up 2 reasons why the goal shouldn't stand?.

There was no review of it which is questionable.

Hope it does even out and cant change result, but in the era of VAR, don't understand why it is applied/used so selectively?

That goal wouldnt have stood the other way around.

VAR reviews EVERY goal. If the review is relatively quick then we'd be unaware as there'll be none of the standing around waiting that we have become accustomed to.

I thought Maguire was in an offside position when the initial ball came in but, frankly, I can't remember if he was OK to challenge for it when the ball was subsequently pulled back.

He was all over Dunk, certainly, but I saw no sign of Dunk appealing or complaining, and he always does if he feels hard done by.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

I get that dude, but in the case of Villa last season, they were relying on goal line technology that for first time had a head wobble.

It seems every goal of every game has to await a VAR review to validate it, especially from dead balls, I don't get why that wasn't done?, or if it was done without announcing it how it failed to pick up 2 reasons why the goal shouldn't stand?.

There was no review of it which is questionable.

Hope it does even out and cant change result, but in the era of VAR, don't understand why it is applied/used so selectively?


That goal wouldnt have stood the other way around.

Perhaps they did.

The images you've posted are inconclusive, the ball is so blurred it's impossible to say with any certainty when it was struck.

But that's a fundamental flaw with VAR, so we have to accept the arbitrary frame they choose to use is the only one that counts.

 

[peterward]

Look we wuz robbed. Everybody who saw the game will know that but micro analysing every small part of it is not going to change the result its just going to give other teams fans a laugh. These things happen its just happened to WBA in their game and to the Pikeys too. (Obviously it was funny in their case) it won't change now. Ref's come from generations of wrong un's everybody knows this.....Let it go.

no arguments there and youre right. It changes nothing. Nowt wrong with chewing the fat over it though, as its not one as with Palace, but multiple dodgy decisions.

I'll be over it by Tuesday!

 

[portlock seagull]

Look we wuz robbed. Everybody who saw the game will know that but micro analysing every small part of it is not going to change the result its just going to give other teams fans a laugh. These things happen its just happened to WBA in their game and to the Pikeys too. (Obviously it was funny in their case) it won't change now. Ref's come from generations of wrong un's everybody knows this.....Let it go.

Here’s where the story ends.

 

[peterward]

Only after a pull back from the first cross. He is onside from the pullback no?

obvs changes nowt, but I think he is offside. Technically if the ball is played backwards the final pass, you cant be.... but from the set piece he is, he is challenging interfering with an opposition player. (not even considering his foul)

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or last two opponents

Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

 

[BN41Albion]

Sometimes they go in our favour, today they didn't.

Villa stayed up and Bournemouth went down because of a mistake last season. They happen.

No they didn't. The butterfly effect and all that.

Agree with your first point though

 

[Bodian]

obvs changes nowt, but I think he is offside. Technically if the ball is played backwards the final pass, you cant be.... but from the set piece he is, he is challenging interfering with an opposition player. (not even considering his foul)

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or last two opponents

Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

It struck me that he manhandled Dunk so that Dunk couldn't head the cross which fell to the other guy who put it back to Maguire who was then onside. So, yes, he was offside when interfering with an opponent, and clearly impacting on the ability of an opponent to head the ball.