UKIP MP number 2 coming up.

[piersa]

What I do find particularly depressing is how many people vote for parties such as UKIP on the basis of misinformation or misunderstanding.

For example, although only about 12% of the British people are either immigrants or from ethnic minority backgrounds, a major survey 3 weeks ago revealed that many people believed the figure to be 24% (that a quarter of the British population was non-British).

The same survey also revealed that the population vastly over-estimates the number of people on welfare and how much an individual receives in social security benefits if they sign-on.

It is this type of ignorance which the Right deliberately encourages for political advantage, and to promote divide-and-rule - 'The reason you're poor and living in shite accommodation paying high rent is because of immigrants/scroungers' - that lets exploitative employers paying crap wages, or slum landlords, to get away with it.

Indeed, much of the 'excessive' welfare bill goes on top-up benefits to compensate for low wages, and Housing Benefit to subsidise high rents - the welfare state being bled dry by employers and landlords making £ millions - of course, this is not the 'welfare abuse' we read about in the Tory tabloids!

You should consider a career in politics.

 

[GT49er]

Indeed, much of the 'excessive' welfare bill goes on top-up benefits to compensate for low wages, and Housing Benefit to subsidise high rents - the welfare state being bled dry by employers and landlords making £ millions - of course, this is not the 'welfare abuse' we read about in the Tory tabloids!

Indeed it is not - it is the sound of snouts in the trough, of the rich getting richer while their chums in Parliament make sure it stays that way.

 

[Peteinblack]

You should consider a career in politics.

Ha! No thanks, I couldn't bear the company I'd be keeping!

Besides, I like to think I have principles, some integrity and a degree of self-respect, all of which would rule me out!!

 

[Hastings gull]

They get my support exactly because of an EU referendum. Labour lied about the one for the Lisbon Treaty so they are untrustworthy in the matter ( and the Tories promised the same one despite not actually being in power anyway ! ). I don't trust the Tories to deliver a proper in/out referendum - they will twist it somehow. Just like the three main parties did for the Scottish referendum - they saw they were losing so they blackmailed the Scots with a sudden choice of Full Independence or Independence Light - no option to keep the status quo as it started with.

The problem with plebiscites, however well-intentioned, is that they can be dangerously simplistic, and distort. Yes or no to EU membership would presumably suit the "no" vote for whom the situation is clear. I think it is probably fair to say that public opinion has turned against what is widely perceived as meddling by unelected quangos in Brussels over-riding our institutions, and yet if you asked whether you think it is a good idea to stay in the EU for ease of travel and trade, then you would in all probability get a different answer. Or on another level - ask folk whether they want to go over to Calais prior to Christmas to stock up with boot loads of cheaper booze or go back to just one bottle of spirits etc and 200 fags . .

 

[User removed 4]

Thats a brave UAF member to attend an EDL meeting for a start...wouldnt mind seeing that video, you have a link?... moving on...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/nov/19/edl-splinter-group-target-unions
http://www.socialistrevolution.org/...h-attacks-on-occupy-and-trade-union-movement/
http://uaf.org.uk/2011/11/edl-fascists-attempt-attack-on-trade-union-unites-north-west-hq/
http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/26218/Liverpools+unions+stand+up+to+EDL+attack
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/revenue_an...ex.cfm/id/E06DB74A-C197-4E06-93ED9A35B1EFBFD5

A lot braver than you, but that's not difficult

 

[Danny-Boy]

They get my support exactly because of an EU referendum. Labour lied about the one for the Lisbon Treaty so they are untrustworthy in the matter ( and the Tories promised the same one despite not actually being in power anyway ! ). I don't trust the Tories to deliver a proper in/out referendum - they will twist it somehow. Just like the three main parties did for the Scottish referendum - they saw they were losing so they blackmailed the Scots with a sudden choice of Full Independence or Independence Light - no option to keep the status quo as it started with.

The problem with plebiscites, however well-intentioned, is that they can be dangerously simplistic, and distort. Yes or no to EU membership would presumably suit the "no" vote for whom the situation is clear. I think it is probably fair to say that public opinion has turned against what is widely perceived as meddling by unelected quangos in Brussels over-riding our institutions, and yet if you asked whether you think it is a good idea to stay in the EU for ease of travel and trade, then you would in all probability get a different answer. Or on another level - ask folk whether they want to go over to Calais prior to Christmas to stock up with boot loads of cheaper booze or go back to just one bottle of spirits etc and 200 fags . .

I want to go to DIEPPE actually, like you used to be able to before Transmanche altered all the sailing times to suit lorr drivers and French travellers coming here.

 

[daveinprague]

A lot braver than you, but that's not difficult

Adding nothing to the thread.....again....with another hilarious avatar.

It pleases me to know that I really upset you. Thanks for displaying it, but I think we can agree...a middle aged man wandering around Hove to beat somebody up is a silly ****....

I saw you in a thread recently getting aggressive with somebody. Youre a sad **** for real...and that pleases me. Thanks.

 

[Red Side Of Sussex]

What I do find particularly depressing is how many people vote for parties such as UKIP on the basis of misinformation or misunderstanding.

For example, although only about 12% of the British people are either immigrants or from ethnic minority backgrounds, a major survey 3 weeks ago revealed that many people believed the figure to be 24% (that a quarter of the British population was non-British).

The same survey also revealed that the population vastly over-estimates the number of people on welfare and how much an individual receives in social security benefits if they sign-on.

It is this type of ignorance which the Right deliberately encourages for political advantage, and to promote divide-and-rule - 'The reason you're poor and living in shite accommodation paying high rent is because of immigrants/scroungers' - that lets exploitative employers paying crap wages, or slum landlords, to get away with it.

Indeed, much of the 'excessive' welfare bill goes on top-up benefits to compensate for low wages, and Housing Benefit to subsidise high rents - the welfare state being bled dry by employers and landlords making £ millions - of course, this is not the 'welfare abuse' we read about in the Tory tabloids!

Just to pick up your point about percentages.It all depends on where you live in the country,some places haven't been touched that much by immigration, whilst other towns and cities have been.
Let's take a look at Sussex.
The 5 largest towns are Brighton and Hove,Crawley,Worthing,Eastbourne and Hastings.

Brighton has 89% White British.
Crawley has 72% White British.
Worthing has 94% white British.
Eastbourne has 94% white British.
Hastings has 94% white British.

I live in Crawley and over the last 5 years you can see the change in the town.Its not in my head and I'm not imagining it.
It's there everyday for all to see.
So for me in my town 28% of people living here are ethnic or immigrants.

 

[Hastings gull]

I want to go to DIEPPE actually, like you used to be able to before Transmanche altered all the sailing times to suit lorr drivers and French travellers coming here.

You have my deepest sympathy, Sir! Why would the timings suit the French and not us? Given the 4 hour journey time, would it not be quicker to go to Dover? Yes, there are petrol costs, I appreciate. P&O is about £30.00 return for the day but if you buy over £250.00 's worth at the Calais wine and Beer supermarket, they pay your next ferry crossing.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The population of the US is 313 million, the population of the UK is 64 million and rising fast. That's the biggest difference when you compare the size of both countries.
We can't turn the clock back now, but everything has to do with immigration one way or another. Immigration didn't create the financial meltdown but it hasn't helped the situation we are currently in.

For me the negatives out way the positives of it, and for that reason I will vote UKIP.

 

[jimbob5]

The population of the US is 313 million, the population of the UK is 64 million and rising fast. That's the biggest difference when you compare the size of both countries.
We can't turn the clock back now, but everything has to do with immigration one way or another. Immigration didn't create the financial meltdown but it hasn't helped the situation we are currently in.

For me the negatives out way the positives of it, and for that reason I will vote UKIP.

When you live in leafy lane you meet nice Indian Doctors, have a cheerful Pakistani Dentist, a Polish plumber, eat in the local posh Italian restaurant etc etc so have a positive view on immigration. If you live in a sink estate and find there's hundreds of people scrambling to get a job which doesn't even pay a living wage, you will probably have a different view. The former is more likely to be the type who phones the radio or writes to the paper etc

 

[daveinprague]

So, to sum up... some people will vote UKIP....most will not.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I want to go to DIEPPE actually, like you used to be able to before Transmanche altered all the sailing times to suit lorr drivers and French travellers coming here.

They suit me perfectly and I go over half a dozen times a year. Potter along for 10 in the morning ferry which allows me to get to mid-France about 7pm. Coming back get the 6pm ferry which means I don't have to leave home at the crack of dawn.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Just to pick up your point about percentages.It all depends on where you live in the country,some places haven't been touched that much by immigration, whilst other towns and cities have been.
Let's take a look at Sussex.
The 5 largest towns are Brighton and Hove,Crawley,Worthing,Eastbourne and Hastings.

Brighton has 89% White British.
Crawley has 72% White British.
Worthing has 94% white British.
Eastbourne has 94% white British.
Hastings has 94% white British.

I live in Crawley and over the last 5 years you can see the change in the town.Its not in my head and I'm not imagining it.
It's there everyday for all to see.
So for me in my town 28% of people living here are ethnic or immigrants.

Id hazard a guess that of that 28% only about 10 are from the EU. The UK has had a problem with immigration from outside the EU for decades. And voting ukip won't fix that, Infact voting ukip, won't fix anything IMO.

 

[Triggaaar]

They get my support exactly because of an EU referendum. Labour lied about the one for the Lisbon Treaty so they are untrustworthy in the matter ( and the Tories promised the same one despite not actually being in power anyway ! ). I don't trust the Tories to deliver a proper in/out referendum - they will twist it somehow. Just like the three main parties did for the Scottish referendum - they saw they were losing so they blackmailed the Scots with a sudden choice of Full Independence or Independence Light - no option to keep the status quo as it started with.

Maybe if we were having a referendum, and the 'leave EU' campaign was winning, Brussels would offer us Independence Light.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Id hazard a guess that of that 28% only about 10 are from the EU. The UK has had a problem with immigration from outside the EU for decades. And voting ukip won't fix that, Infact voting ukip, won't fix anything IMO.

Triggaaar has mentioned the phrase "Independence Light". Talking about "immigration from outside the EU" is, of course, simply an opportunity for "racism light".

If UKIP voters think that Farage and Co might "fix" the EU, it doesn't take too much to imagine that "immigrants from outside the EU" will be next in line for a fix.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Triggaaar has mentioned the phrase "Independence Light". Talking about "immigration from outside the EU" is, of course, simply an opportunity for "racism light".

If UKIP voters think that Farage and Co might "fix" the EU, it doesn't take too much to imagine that "immigrants from outside the EU" will be next in line for a fix.

But immigration to the UK from outside the EU is already controlled via a points based system - you never hear the 'racist' accusation about that.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

But immigration to the UK from outside the EU is already controlled via a points based system - you never hear the 'racist' accusation about that.

UKIP are promising to ratchet up the controls on immigration from Europe. Do you imagine that they don't aspire to do the same with Commonwealth immigration and other immigration from outside Europe?

 

[Red Side Of Sussex]

UKIP are promising to ratchet up the controls on immigration from Europe. Do you imagine that they don't aspire to do the same with Commonwealth immigration and other immigration from outside Europe?

Why is that a bad thing?

Just control the numbers a bit better that's all.

 

[Hastings gull]

Triggaaar has mentioned the phrase "Independence Light". Talking about "immigration from outside the EU" is, of course, simply an opportunity for "racism light".

If UKIP voters think that Farage and Co might "fix" the EU, it doesn't take too much to imagine that "immigrants from outside the EU" will be next in line for a fix.

I think you are jumping to a conclusion here that might not be warranted, though I don't doubt that this might be a part of the thinking. People who come here from outside the EU tend to be from different cultures, and tend to be less willing to integrate, with its implications for social cohesion. They have bigger families, on average, which puts strains on the public services, and tend to be less well educated, which means that they are more likely to be on benefits. It is understandable that this worries people who fear for outbreaks of racial violence. Most of us live in leafy Sussex and have not personally witnessed areas in which folk have grown up that have been totally transformed by immigration. As there seems to be no end in sight to what is widely perceived, rightly or wrongly, as excessive immigration, tensions will undoubtedly rise. I can fully understand why voters would turn to UKIP to try and stem the tide, as other parties have tried and seemingly failed. Yes, there is an element of racism involved, but most folk do believe in live and let live, but are just fearful of what the future might bring.