UK net migration hits record high

[Hastings gull]

On the other hand what gives anyone the right to say somebody can't travel where they wish?

Come on, it is hardly that simple, is it?

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

It’s also a bit rich some of our Euro neighbours on the front line are rounding on the UK as a nasty thoughtless scapegoat when it comes to helping refugees.
The UK Gov is one of the biggest global contributors to the UN Refugee Agency. Our Gov donations to the Agency in 2014 were more than the combined Gov donations of Germany,France.Italy.Spain.Greece.Turkey.Czech.Hungary.Austria.Bulgaria and Serbia.

Its not as if the UK has been sitting on its arse twiddling its thumbs.

This is a bit like seeing a big road accident and not bothering to help because you once chucked a few coppers in the St Johns Ambulance collection bucket.

 

[pastafarian]

Thanks. I don't think this has ever been mentioned on here or far less tackled. People who advocate mass immigration just assume that someone somewhere will do something, and invariably that it won't be too close to them. To be quite frank, I don't really know what happens - perhaps if they are joining family members. they squeeze in. But with the allowances and presumably free accommodation, to which they are entitled, and which someone went through last week or so, there must presumably be quite a large cost.

Asylum support


1. Overview
You may be able to get housing and money to support you and your family while you’re waiting to find out if you’ll be given asylum.
This also means your children will go to a free state school and you may get free healthcare from the National Health Service (NHS).
You can still apply for short-term support if you’ve been refused asylum and are preparing to leave the UK.
Call an asylum helpline for free help with asylum support or short-term support.
2. What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll be able to collect money from a local post office each week. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
You’ll get £36.95 for each person in your household.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
• somewhere to live
• £35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You won’t be given:
• the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
• any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.

Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if you baby is under 6 weeks old.
Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.
You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.
If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply tothe support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.
Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, eg to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.
You’ll also get:
• free prescriptions for medicine
• free dental care for your teeth
• free eyesight tests
• help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/overview

 

[Hastings gull]

In the short term that is undoubtedly true. What is often forgotten though is that economic growth only derives from two factors, natural resources and manpower. As a country we have few natural resources and the vast majority of our income and potential growth comes from the labour market.

I'm not convinced that Germany's stance on the refugees is purely altruistic - they experienced the cost of accepting a sudden increase in their population with the reunification of East and West Germany in 1990 - a process that cost 2 TRILLION Euros over 20 years but has resulted in one of the strongest economies in Europe.

I am in no way an economist, but given that we do have unemployment here, I can't see how allowing millions in, and this is what could happen, will make us economically better off, particularly as this ignores the costs involved in the change to the infrastructure. As an aside, and I don't necessarily disagree with your suspicions, the German economy has always been strong, and not just as a result of reunification. But this is the first time I have read what you are saying.
Allied to this idea of examining German motives, I was watching their TV again last night and in one (of the many!) debate on immigration, the interviewer asked the panel whether they thought that German "altruism" was a result of their continued war guilt and an attempt to show the world how wonderful they are. (OK, rather crudely out, I accept) One person said, reasonably enough, that when a 20 year old comes to Munich station to bring a teddy bear for a child, then this is just simple generosity. One could probably accept that, but I just wonder if subconsciously this might be lurking somewhere in the background. An interesting thought.

 

[Nibble]

Pretty disturbing to see the predictable posters on here happy to watch 3 year old children wash up on the beach and still able to turn a blind eye. It's one thing, and can be pitifully amusing sometimes , to read the usual right wingers bang on about immigration and foreigners in their ill informed Alf Garnett fashion but a much darker and frankly revolting proposition to read them happy to ignore the plight of dying people on their doorstep, begging for help.
I don't think it's a far stretch to wonder what they would have done for the Jews in WW2.
These are the posters that love Churchill and bang on about our contribution to the world wars but when they get the chance to display some humanity, when they get the chance to help others in need? Well then it's pull the ladder up, I'm alright jack.
And for them to have the bare faces cheek to say to the more compassionate among us that it's okay cos we won't have to live near it all! It's just trying to make themselves feel better.
These kids are washing up on beaches. Dead children.
Some of you should hang your heads. And I hope when people ask about this period in history and they ask what you did to support the dying refugees, what you did to help your fellow human you are proud to say you told anyone that would listen that you didn't care. Shameful.

 

[peterward]

nobody could be failed to be moved by the image yesterday of the drowned young boy floating face down on a turkish beach, but the medias response is, that should now move people to open the doors, if anything it should steady the resolve to do everything possible to stop more people being encouraged and drowning.

Britain should be willing to take a quota as should every EU country, but only if there is a structural and controlled long term solution to this unprecedented flow of people, we shouldnt be forced to just throw open the doors with zero plan in place to seek to control the situation within UN charters and EU laws. And it should be for genuine refugees and not economic migrants. This ramshackle, uncontrolled chaos is partly caused by Germany's unilateral waving of the dublin convention, that stipulates any refugee into the EU must claim asylum in the first EU country they enter. which would be mainly Greece or Italy. Can't expect those 2 to shoulder all the problem, so the whole EU should fund numerous fast track processing centres in those 2 countries and all asylum seekers (IAW with Dublin convention), should be registered there, anyone trying to make it through ten other countries to the richer EU countries, should be immediately sent back to these centres, as should anyone applying anywhere else.
If you have travelled through one safe country (or the country you entered the EU), its not legal to simply move across europe to travel to the country of your personal preference. Not one single person who comes on the channel tunnel or a boat should be allowed to claim asylum in the UK as they are outside the UN and EU law. If their life is in danger, the first safe country they enter is where they should claim ayslum (UN charter), traveling half the world through many countries to cherry pick, where they fancy is not within the laws, if they have come from France, as a minimum, they are not eligible to claim in the UK unless they are french and their life was in danger in France, they have flouted the UN and Dublin convention. They should be also sent to the EU funded application centres. All successful asylum applications should then be sent to whatever EU country is chosen (on a fair quota system) and that individual has to remain in that allocated country on a non citizen, residency basis that doesn't let them move freely or claim benefits in other countries freely for a period of time. That would meet the laws and help those whose lives are at genuine risk, it would control and spread the burden fairly and stop the flagrant rule breaking of people thinking they can cherry pick their top destination. We need to fulfill our moral obligations, but we also need to exercise some controls and organisation, and to change chaotic situations in Kos, Macedonia, Hungary and at Calais and to keep within the UN charter and put the control int o the hands on the EU and not people traffickers getting rich on peoples desperation, right now this is all an uncontrolled shambles and there is nothing to stop it becoming 10x bigger. Open door to a shambles outside the laws on asylum applications is not the answer.

 

[Insel affe]

Pretty disturbing to see the predictable posters on here happy to watch 3 year old children wash up on the beach and still able to turn a blind eye. It's one thing, and can be pitifully amusing sometimes , to read the usual right wingers bang on about immigration and foreigners in their ill informed Alf Garnett fashion but a much darker and frankly revolting proposition to read them happy to ignore the plight of dying people on their doorstep, begging for help.
I don't think it's a far stretch to wonder what they would have done for the Jews in WW2.
These are the posters that love Churchill and bang on about our contribution to the world wars but when they get the chance to display some humanity, when they get the chance to help others in need? Well then it's pull the ladder up, I'm alright jack.
And for them to have the bare faces cheek to say to the more compassionate among us that it's okay cos we won't have to live near it all! It's just trying to make themselves feel better.
These kids are washing up on beaches. Dead children.
Some of you should hang your heads. And I hope when people ask about this period in history and they ask what you did to support the dying refugees, what you did to help your fellow human you are proud to say you told anyone that would listen that you didn't care. Shameful.

Well said that man.

 

[Hastings gull]

We helped cause this problem by going to war in the first place, now we have to deal with the consequences, simply shutting up shop and letting the rest of Europe deal with it would be the equivalent of sticking two fingers up to them

This is far too simplistic. We cannot keep banging on that it is all our fault -The Iraq war was an error, as most folk can see, but it does not explain why then millions want to settle in a country which in their perception, was at fault. This country has let in millions of immigrants over the years, and I suggest a visit to Bradford, Leicester Birmingham and London in the near future. I think you might change your mind that we are "simply shutting up shop". Yesterday I spent some time trying to get an idea of numbers from a variety of sources,and believe me, it was a total minefield, where no one figure was ever the same, as all sorts of folk with a vested interest put out convenient stats. What I think is fair to say is that over the years, we have taken more people in from the Third World than the Germans, and our response is due to this. They are now overrun, and hit out looking for immediate comparisons, which makes them feel so much better.

 

[narly101]

Pretty disturbing to see the predictable posters on here happy to watch 3 year old children wash up on the beach and still able to turn a blind eye. It's one thing, and can be pitifully amusing sometimes , to read the usual right wingers bang on about immigration and foreigners in their ill informed Alf Garnett fashion but a much darker and frankly revolting proposition to read them happy to ignore the plight of dying people on their doorstep, begging for help.
I don't think it's a far stretch to wonder what they would have done for the Jews in WW2.
These are the posters that love Churchill and bang on about our contribution to the world wars but when they get the chance to display some humanity, when they get the chance to help others in need? Well then it's pull the ladder up, I'm alright jack.
And for them to have the bare faces cheek to say to the more compassionate among us that it's okay cos we won't have to live near it all! It's just trying to make themselves feel better.
These kids are washing up on beaches. Dead children.
Some of you should hang your heads. And I hope when people ask about this period in history and they ask what you did to support the dying refugees, what you did to help your fellow human you are proud to say you told anyone that would listen that you didn't care. Shameful.

Oh do pipe down, you sanctimonious old fart. All I see you doing to help is post your inflammatory keyboard warrior posturing.

 

[glasfryn]

nobody could be failed to be moved by the image yesterday of the drowned young boy floating face down on a turkish beach, but the medias response is, that should now move people to open the doors, if anything it should steady the resolve to do everything possible to stop more people being encouraged and drowning.

Britain should be willing to take a quota as should every EU country, but only if there is a structural and controlled long term solution to this unprecedented flow of people, we shouldnt be forced to just throw open the doors with zero plan in place to seek to control the situation within UN charters and EU laws. And it should be for genuine refugees and not economic migrants. This ramshackle, uncontrolled chaos is partly caused by Germany's unilateral waving of the dublin convention, that stipulates any refugee into the EU must claim asylum in the first EU country they enter. which would be mainly Greece or Italy. Can't expect those 2 to shoulder all the problem, so the whole EU should fund numerous fast track processing centres in those 2 countries and all asylum seekers (IAW with Dublin convention), should be registered there, anyone trying to make it through ten other countries to the richer EU countries, should be immediately sent back to these centres, as should anyone applying anywhere else.
If you have travelled through one safe country (or the country you entered the EU), its not legal to simply move across europe to travel to the country of your personal preference. Not one single person who comes on the channel tunnel or a boat should be allowed to claim asylum in the UK as they are outside the UN and EU law. If their life is in danger, the first safe country they enter is where they should claim ayslum (UN charter), traveling half the world through many countries to cherry pick, where they fancy is not within the laws, if they have come from France, as a minimum, they are not eligible to claim in the UK unless they are french and their life was in danger in France, they have flouted the UN and Dublin convention. They should be also sent to the EU funded application centres. All successful asylum applications should then be sent to whatever EU country is chosen (on a fair quota system) and that individual has to remain in that allocated country on a non citizen, residency basis that doesn't let them move freely or claim benefits in other countries freely for a period of time. That would meet the laws and help those whose lives are at genuine risk, it would control and spread the burden fairly and stop the flagrant rule breaking of people thinking they can cherry pick their top destination. We need to fulfill our moral obligations, but we also need to exercise some controls and organisation, and to change chaotic situations in Kos, Macedonia, Hungary and at Calais and to keep within the UN charter, right now this is all an uncontrolled shambles and there is nothing to stop it becoming 10x bigger. Open door to a shambles outside the laws on asylum applications is not the answer.

is the right answer
good post

 

[Surf's Up]

Cameron's position on this is indefensible and he is playing politics with people's lives. He is pandering to the right wing, UKIP orientated wing of his party and is allowing the confusion in the public mind and enhanced by media reporting between "immigrants" and "refugees" to maintain his position. Thie longer he maintains this disgraceful stance the more difficult it will be for him to change it. He needs to shift his position pronto.

 

[alfredmizen]

This crisis is now way beyond politics. Listen to who you want, look at the pictures in which ever news outlet you choose, and make your own mind up. Immigration is one thing, this crisis is something else.

ahhh , youre mr compassionate now in this guise i see ( this is Herr tubthumpers alter ego).

 

[alfredmizen]

This crisis is now way beyond politics. Listen to who you want, look at the pictures in which ever news outlet you choose, and make your own mind up. Immigration is one thing, this crisis is something else.

The most recent pictures , the ones from the independent are of people who who were escaping from TURKEY to try to get to Kos , turkey is a safe country, just not as nice as here.

 

[pastafarian]

Pretty disturbing to see the predictable posters on here happy to watch 3 year old children wash up on the beach

who said that?.....If anyone?

It is shocking.i hope the people putting these people in deathtrap lorries and in unseaworthy dinghies for sea journeys they are not designed for are stopped sooner than later and get whats coming to them.

I also hope the EU doesnt make the mistake of letting everyone in without checks,this will open the flood gates and then the carnage from the traffickers ill work will be even more horrendous.

 

[alfredmizen]

nobody could be failed to be moved by the image yesterday of the drowned young boy floating face down on a turkish beach, but the medias response is, that should now move people to open the doors, if anything it should steady the resolve to do everything possible to stop more people being encouraged and drowning.

Britain should be willing to take a quota as should every EU country, but only if there is a structural and controlled long term solution to this unprecedented flow of people, we shouldnt be forced to just throw open the doors with zero plan in place to seek to control the situation within UN charters and EU laws. And it should be for genuine refugees and not economic migrants. This ramshackle, uncontrolled chaos is partly caused by Germany's unilateral waving of the dublin convention, that stipulates any refugee into the EU must claim asylum in the first EU country they enter. which would be mainly Greece or Italy. Can't expect those 2 to shoulder all the problem, so the whole EU should fund numerous fast track processing centres in those 2 countries and all asylum seekers (IAW with Dublin convention), should be registered there, anyone trying to make it through ten other countries to the richer EU countries, should be immediately sent back to these centres, as should anyone applying anywhere else.
If you have travelled through one safe country (or the country you entered the EU), its not legal to simply move across europe to travel to the country of your personal preference. Not one single person who comes on the channel tunnel or a boat should be allowed to claim asylum in the UK as they are outside the UN and EU law. If their life is in danger, the first safe country they enter is where they should claim ayslum (UN charter), traveling half the world through many countries to cherry pick, where they fancy is not within the laws, if they have come from France, as a minimum, they are not eligible to claim in the UK unless they are french and their life was in danger in France, they have flouted the UN and Dublin convention. They should be also sent to the EU funded application centres. All successful asylum applications should then be sent to whatever EU country is chosen (on a fair quota system) and that individual has to remain in that allocated country on a non citizen, residency basis that doesn't let them move freely or claim benefits in other countries freely for a period of time. That would meet the laws and help those whose lives are at genuine risk, it would control and spread the burden fairly and stop the flagrant rule breaking of people thinking they can cherry pick their top destination. We need to fulfill our moral obligations, but we also need to exercise some controls and organisation, and to change chaotic situations in Kos, Macedonia, Hungary and at Calais and to keep within the UN charter and put the control int o the hands on the EU and not people traffickers getting rich on peoples desperation, right now this is all an uncontrolled shambles and there is nothing to stop it becoming 10x bigger. Open door to a shambles outside the laws on asylum applications is not the answer.

Correct, i was , but these people were trying to get FROM turkey, to get to Kos , they were already in a safe country , just not as nice as here.

 

[BigGully]

We helped cause this problem by going to war in the first place, now we have to deal with the consequences, simply shutting up shop and letting the rest of Europe deal with it would be the equivalent of sticking two fingers up to them

There is that dynamic and to some extent it prompts some responsibility, however to think the middle east was some tranquil idyll prior to any intervention is delusional.

Dictator after dictator has controlled its people by fear and deprivation, if you want us to mop up the current wreckage, which is unsustainable anyway, how would you of liked us to deal with previous regimes before any migrant crisis, probably by intervention !!

If you care to be consistent surely deaths of children on a boat, a beach or gassed in their own homeland deliver similar sadness and outrage.

 

[Nibble]

Oh do pipe down, you sanctimonious old fart. All I see you doing to help is post your inflammatory keyboard warrior posturing.

Pathetic response.

 

[Nibble]

who said that?.....If anyone?

It is shocking.i hope the people putting these people in deathtrap lorries and in unseaworthy dinghies for sea journeys they are not designed for are stopped sooner than later and get whats coming to them.

I also hope the EU doesnt make the mistake of letting everyone in without checks,this will open the flood gates and then the carnage from the traffickers ill work will be even more horrendous.

Fair points. There have been one or two posters on here who have categorically stated they do not care about dying children.

 

[alfredmizen]

Fair points. There have been one or two posters on here who have categorically stated they do not care about dying children.

Really ?? I've yet to see ANYONE state that.

 

[pastafarian]

Fair points. There have been one or two posters on here who have categorically stated they do not care about dying children.

when you say one or two do you mean zero?.....i dont recall anyone categorically saying that