[Offers] UFO:s & aliens

[Swansman]

That sounds like you think I'm saying that aliens don't exist, which I haven't ruled out at all. I'm just saying that they haven't been here yet IF they exist. If you think it's more possible that they have visited than they haven't then I think you're seriously deluded. Your argument about the size of the universe makes it LESS possible that any have visited rather than MORE possible.

While the size increases the distance (less possible to travel, at least with our limitations in technology) it also increases the possibility of something out there having invented something to master space travel. Only 200 years ago going to the other side of the world would have been a massive, time consuming task taking weeks or months if unlucky, today you can go to the moon in three days. Add another million years of development and its probable that what we now consider limitations once again will be breached.

 

[boik]

While the size increases the distance (less possible to travel, at least with our limitations in technology) it also increases the possibility of something out there having invented something to master space travel. Only 200 years ago going to the other side of the world would have been a massive, time consuming task taking weeks or months if unlucky, today you can go to the moon in three days. Add another million years of development and its probable that what we now consider limitations once again will be breached.

It's not just mastering space travel. We've done that so it is comparatively simple. Your argument requires that something needs to have invented space travel that breaks all known laws of physics.

I'm not sure why you are so desperate to believe that aliens have visited. You say that understand the infinite vastness of space, but refuse to understand the logic of what that vastness implies. Why would these aliens set out all that time ago to visit an apparently lifeless rock orbiting a nondescript star lost in the vastness of a galaxy, that itself is lost in the infinity of the universe. WHY? Why would they come here? It doesn't make any logical sense.

The only theoretical way it might happen is if they have invented instantaneous travel to all points in the universe at the same time. And yet the UFO believers always see old fashioned space ships obeying the laws of physics.

I blame Star Trek for encouraging belief in all of this twaddle. They should put an announcement at the start of every episode/film reminding people that it is just made up boll0cks.

 

[Swansman]

It's not just mastering space travel. We've done that so it is comparatively simple. Your argument requires that something needs to have invented space travel that breaks all known laws of physics.

I'm not sure why you are so desperate to believe that aliens have visited. You say that understand the infinite vastness of space, but refuse to understand the logic of what that vastness implies. Why would these aliens set out all that time ago to visit an apparently lifeless rock orbiting a nondescript star lost in the vastness of a galaxy, that itself is lost in the infinity of the universe. WHY? Why would they come here? It doesn't make any logical sense.

The only theoretical way it might happen is if they have invented instantaneous travel to all points in the universe at the same time. And yet the UFO believers always see old fashioned space ships obeying the laws of physics.

I blame Star Trek for encouraging belief in all of this twaddle. They should put an announcement at the start of every episode/film reminding people that it is just made up boll0cks.

Okay, I thought "mastered" meant you are able to do something with perfection, but that may be language confusion, but thats what I meant anyway. And even if people dont believe it (since there is no evidence of it), I think we will be a lot better at space travel in 500 years compared to now.

The infinite vastness also mean infinite possibilities, thats my logic. And as for the "logic sense" why they would or would not visit us, perhaps they dont use the same logics we do just like goats probably have a different perception than us.

And no, thats not the only theoretical way. There's plenty of theories (in the range from hopeless to who knows) of how that could happen.

As for Star Trek, havent watched it. Did see Star Wars though and I agree it has bad effects on encouring beliefs that if there's something out there, it would probably be entities acting, looking and behaving as humans, using technology and "science" humans could fathom.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So your point is the same that the guy who insinuated that "they" dont have the technology for this, so they cant visit us yet. Are you honestly not able to see the flawed logics in this? That "they", if existing, could been a totally different stage of technological development?

As for evidence, it is possible that things exist without evidence being publicly available to everyone. Its called classified information, you can google it if you want a sense of it. There are also most likely also things that exist but havent been proven at this point.

I didn't say that. Their technology cannot defy the laws of science so the time it would take....just read my earlier post. I'm not going to repeat myself.

The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. Alpha centuri is our nearest star (after the sun). It is 4.3 light years away. The fastest thing made by humans travels around 36,000 miles per hour. That's 600 miles a second. That is about 0.3% of the speed of light. Can something go faster?

Not very much faster in our universe. The elements are imutable so any alien would have only the same elements as us to use to make a space craft, and only the same elements and processes (up to and including the elusive cold fusion). There is a limit to how much power that can create, and how much power could be contained and withstood in the vehicle withou it being destroyed by its own speed. So if there is an as yet unimagined power source, nothing could build a machine to contain it and set it to work using elements from our universe. If there was an unknown power source....that's the first statistic for which the probability (P) is low. The existence of elements alien to our physics? They would have to be heavier than the elements in our universe (not 'in between' say, carbon and nitrogen - that is genuinely impossible). Heavy things are not he easiest of little buggers to work with, and the ones at the edge of our periodic table are extraordinarily unstable. Another thing with a low P value. Here is a link to just the physics of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_stability

If aliens could somehow increase the power and and strength of a vehicle ten fold the best effort of humans, to 3% of the speed of light (and the laws of physical matter may preclude the ability of any machine to stay in one piece at such speeds) it would take 143 years to reach alpha centuri. Which is not a sytem that is likely to support any life, let alone a form that is ten fold or more advanced than our own. The maximum that fusion and fission might propel an object is 10% speed of light, but that is an object, not a machine that can carry life forms. Also any collisions with micromaterial in space would destroy the vehicle. Another very small P value to be overcome.

I don't really need to drone on do I? This is about probabilities. Due to a sequence of small P values which multiply as each issue is factored in, the probability of aliens visiting us is much much less than me, aged 61, winning the marathon at the next olympics, to be held this year (requiring a sudden cure for Cova-19 and a reversal of the 'postponement' of the games, together with a cure for my arthritis and a blinding improvement in my stamina and fitness that, even at my peak, would have me with torn calf muscles a few miles into any jog).

But as I have often said, the probability of there being living dinosaurs (or even unicorns) living in Australia may be close to zero, but that all changes if some bugger goes and finds one. Personally I think the odds are remote. You?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sorely missed

View attachment 121518

Unlike his cock of a brother

 

[Swansman]

I didn't say that. Their technology cannot defy the laws of science so the time it would take....just read my earlier post. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Maybe they can defy the laws of science. Or maybe humans dont know everthing about the "laws of science", as it only applies to what we could measure with experiments or observations and not what we are not capable to experiment with or observe.

 

[Stat Brother]

If this thread is going to persist some of you might be interested in Rhys Darby's Spotify podcast Aliens Like Us.


I've not really listening to it but it's forerunner, The Cryptid Factor was audio gold:-

https://audioboom.com/channels/4961702

 

[Klaas]

UFOs? Nice bit of early 90s nostalgia.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Unlike his cock of a brother

Oh yes. How can 2 brothers be so different?

 

[Goldstone1976]

Oh yes. How can 2 brothers be so different?

The same way as William and Harry can be?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Maybe they can defy the laws of science. Or maybe humans dont know everthing about the "laws of science", as it only applies to what we could measure with experiments or observations and not what we are not capable to experiment with or observe.

Maybe. Maybe I made the unverse, and I am God.

I'm probably not, though.

Or am I ?

 

[Questions]

The same way as William and Harry can be?

Or Mike and Bernie Winters....

 

[Swansman]

Maybe. Maybe I made the unverse, and I am God.

I'm probably not, though.

Or am I ?

It would explain a lot

 

[dangull]

I would be amazed if our little blue dot is the most interesting thing in the cosmos, with us being the most intelligent beings that have ever existed, and that happened only around 200,000 years ago, which is a blink of the eye in the age of the universe.

 

[Dick Head]

Edit: I omitted to look at your location.

Welcome to Earth, O great one. Spare me, O lord

I'm not Tharg but he is a great mate.

 

[razer]

How did the Sumerians know about Pluto?

The Disney Channel of course.