[Politics] Trump under fire.

[chickens]

I never said any of this. I’m merely saying words can have consequences and words can be powerful. Of course it doesn’t not absolve anyone, but it explains why things happen.

Sorry if I have misrepresented what you were saying, absolutely Trump’s rhetoric is often inflammatory and factually false, but that is where it is vital that people have trust in the honesty of their news organisations.

News organisations should not be “left” or “right” they should report the facts, and then offer different possible interpretations that could reasonably be arrived at based on those facts.

It seems both sides of America feel that they need their own news, and while that may be giving the consumer what they want, I don’t believe a democracy can survive it. What you actually have in that case is two competing propaganda machines with a binary choice between them, neither giving the full picture.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I’ve not read the whole thread, but the posts on NSC are predictable.

Has everyone who blamed Jan 6th on Trump also blamed Biden for this after saying “it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye”?

Or does consistency not apply to TDS?

In the land of many very stupid people who have access to as many weapons as a small army, then any use of metaphors, no matter how clearly they are in context not literal, then it is probably worth not using bullseye, crosshairs, target, going after, getting rid of, or any allusion to a literal interpretation.

However to conflate Trump’s part in Jan 06 and not accepting an election defeat, to the use of ‘bullseye’ in a clear reference to an election race (note it’s not actually a race, that’s a metaphor, maybe a simile…) is a bit ridiculous.

 

[TomandJerry]

When Crooks was 17 he made a $15 donation to ActBlue, a political action committee that raises money for left-leaning and Democratic politicians, according to a 2021 Federal Election Commission filing. The donation was earmarked for the Progressive Turnout Project, a national group that rallies Democrats to vote, Reuters reported.

 

[Seagull58]

Mark violets a anfita member is under arrest, I rest my case

The gunman was shot dead, a 20 year old named as Thomas Matthew Crooks.

 

[US Seagull]

The shooter, it appears, was a registered Republican. For those that don't know, being a registered Republican or Democrat isn't the same as being, for example, a member of the Labour party of the Conservatives.

In the US, when you register to vote, you'll be asked if you want to register as a Republican, a Democrat or independent. That's it. You just choose whatever you fancy. There are no dues to be paid, you aren't expected to go to meetings, you don't actually have to ever vote for that party if you don't want to. You can switch if you feel so inclined whenever you want. In some states you can do that on election day. The only real difference it makes is with which primary ballot you get. Although some states have open primaries where you can vote in whichever primary you feel like or semi open primaries where you can switch registration on the day.

So being a registered Republican doesn't automatically mean he is politically deeply involved in local Republican politics. He might be, or he might have just decided when he registered to register with the red team.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sorry if I have misrepresented what you were saying, absolutely Trump’s rhetoric is often inflammatory and factually false, but that is where it is vital that people have trust in the honesty of their news organisations.

News organisations should not be “left” or “right” they should report the facts, and then offer different possible interpretations that could reasonably be arrived at based on those facts.

It seems both sides of America feel that they need their own news, and while that may be giving the consumer what they want, I don’t believe a democracy can survive it. What you actually have in that case is two competing propaganda machines with a binary choice between them, neither giving the full picture.

I an ideal world maybe, but not everyone is a critical thinker. I do not claim to fully understand what drives someone to shoot someone. What I do understand is that this happens routinely, and daily, and on a “mass” scale in the US. Against a back drop of this, politicians have a duty to chose their words very carefully. This is the thrust of my thoughts on this matter.

 

[Zeberdi]

I’m sorry, but there’s no such thing as “grounds for diminished responsibility because somebody I find charismatic said to do it.”

Does Trump know what he’s doing? Absolutely. Does that excuse those who rioted and committed criminal acts? No. When you throw a punch at a police officer, you know what you’re doing. These weren’t children.

It would be naive to think politicians or anyone one with the platform to do so, don’t influence the thoughts and behaviour of normal citizens - The whole essence of political objective (and social media influencers) is to do exactly that.

The point @Herr Tubthumper is making however (although he can explain his own points without my help), is that there is a direct correlation between the extreme rhetoric of popular leaders and the extreme reaction to that rhetoric of those that agree (or disagree) with them. In a society where guns are easily accessible and endemic, that reaction all too easily can lead to gun violence.

There is enough lessons in history to tell us that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

When Crooks was 17 he made a $15 donation to ActBlue, a political action committee that raises money for left-leaning and Democratic politicians, according to a 2021 Federal Election Commission filing. The donation was earmarked for the Progressive Turnout Project, a national group that rallies Democrats to vote, Reuters reported.

What we do know is since his name has been released multiple social media accounts have been set up pretending to be him, past tweets and posts fabricated - so I’d suggest within 24hrs of this happening even if it’s Reuters, whether him being left, right or the other, wouldn’t be drawing too many conclusions just yet.

The shooter, it appears, was a registered Republican. For those that don't know, being a registered Republican or Democrat isn't the same as being, for example, a member of the Labour party of the Conservatives.

In the US, when you register to vote, you'll be asked if you want to register as a Republican, a Democrat or independent. That's it. You just choose whatever you fancy. There are no dues to be paid, you aren't expected to go to meetings, you don't actually have to ever vote for that party if you don't want to. You can switch if you feel so inclined whenever you want. In some states you can do that on election day. The only real difference it makes is with which primary ballot you get. Although some states have open primaries where you can vote in whichever primary you feel like or semi open primaries where you can switch registration on the day.

So being a registered Republican doesn't automatically mean he is politically deeply involved in local Republican politics. He might be, or he might have just decided when he registered to register with the red team.

Thanks for that, I knew political affiliation was different, but didn’t know that detail.

 

[Bold Seagull]

What? That's a really stupid thing to say.

Jo Brand was on BBC R4’s comedy panel show ‘Heresy’ - the idea of the show is to say things you shouldnt really say or challenge establushed thinking hence it’s called ‘Heresy’. It was a really stupid thing to say, and clearly presented as a stupid thing to say.

 

[Eeyore]

Without wanting to diminish the seriousness of this, and whatever our views on the politics and personnel - I think we have to admit that this is some photo. I can see this being regularly shown for decades to come.

View attachment 185612

Whoever took that picture will probably never have to work again.

 

[mikeyjh]

I’m sorry, but there’s no such thing as “grounds for diminished responsibility because somebody I find charismatic said to do it.”

Does Trump know what he’s doing? Absolutely. Does that excuse those who rioted and committed criminal acts? No. When you throw a punch at a police officer, you know what you’re doing. These weren’t children.

It's not so binary though, I don't think - You're entirely correct, there is no defence, no excuse - It's also entirely correct that Trump MUST shoulder some responsibility for the violence that is inspired in his name.

 

[US Seagull]

Whoever took that picture will probably never have to work again.

Depends. It might well automatically belong to their employer.

 

[BN9 BHA]

 

[WhingForPresident]

Anyone watching the current season of The Boys? Bar the superhero stuff, it's pretty much playing out before our eyes.

I fear the political divisions amongst the general population here aren't far behind the US. Doesn't look promising for the future.

 

[Zeberdi]

The shooter, it appears, was a registered Republican. For those that don't know, being a registered Republican or Democrat isn't the same as being, for example, a member of the Labour party of the Conservatives.

In the US, when you register to vote, you'll be asked if you want to register as a Republican, a Democrat or independent. That's it. You just choose whatever you fancy. There are no dues to be paid, you aren't expected to go to meetings, you don't actually have to ever vote for that party if you don't want to. You can switch if you feel so inclined whenever you want. In some states you can do that on election day. The only real difference it makes is with which primary ballot you get. Although some states have open primaries where you can vote in whichever primary you feel like or semi open primaries where you can switch registration on the day.

So being a registered Republican doesn't automatically mean he is politically deeply involved in local Republican politics. He might be, or he might have just decided when he registered to register with the red team.

Good points.

The 20 year old shooter would have been voting for the first time in a Presidential election in his life in November. It is not clear yet if he voted in the Primaries earlier in the year but if so, he would have had to register first as a Republican to vote because Penn has closed Primaries.

(Interestingly, he donated $15 to a democratically aligned PAC organisation in 2021 when he would have been about 17).

 

[Triggaaar]

Jo Brand was on BBC R4’s comedy panel show ‘Heresy’ - the idea of the show is to say things you shouldnt really say or challenge establushed thinking hence it’s called ‘Heresy’. It was a really stupid thing to say, and clearly presented as a stupid thing to say.

It sounds like she got confused between 'challenging established thinking' and saying something totally inappropriate.

 

[Nigella's Cream Pie]

I wonder if the shooter was intimidated when Trump turned to face him and then shot despite the target (Trump's head) being reduced in size. Or he might have waited till that moment to try to hit Trump between the eyes. Besides that, how on earth did the Secret Service not spot the shooter when he got up on the roof with a rifle? Maybe they did and thought he was one of their own.

 

[Triggaaar]

I fear the political divisions amongst the general population here aren't far behind the US. Doesn't look promising for the future.

We just voted Labour in with a huge majority. It doesn't feel like the US. It is obviously concerning how many people voted reform, but I hope our populous wouldn't accept a leader like Trump.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

It's mad that a few millimetres and his head would've been blown off on live TV.
It's probably real but because of who it is you can't help but question it..

 

[TomandJerry]

It's mad that a few millimetres and his head would've been blown off on live TV.
It's probably real but because of who it is you can't help but question it..

I mean the shooter has been killed along with an innocent crowd member with two more seriously injured, along with the bullet being a couple inches from landing between his eyes.

Seems abit too much for it to be a set up