[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Barnet Seagull]

I have no idea how I will vote come the GE. Tory by nature, but Boris and Sunak don't fit my outlook. Anyone other than Labour would be a wasted vote and I'm not drawn to all the noise Labour makes which seems to have no more substance than Boris is bad - fill in your own reason. So if I think about Labour, why should I vote for them? These are difficult times, so what's in it for me and everybody like me. Apparently Starmer is very honest and law abiding. Apparently 50 odd Labour MP's supported the rail strike ( I never support striking). Support and a promise of restoring the lost income of WASPI women would be a good start (Corbyn promised it, but too late to be believable). Restoring the theft of the Triple Lock Pension increase for this year would help. A plan to actually reduce the impact of the cost of living crisis for all would make a difference. There's a lot of other things an imaginative opposition could float to attract disenchanted Tories, but will we only hear them in a few months before the GE. There is little I like about the Tories at the moment, but apart from 'Not Boris' what does Labour have to offer?

Completely agree.

There is a massive missed opportunity for Labour here to give a alternative. The problem is that they won't say or offer up anything as it would promote division within their own party and allow the Conservatives to attack their credibility.

The media have fed a narrative for the past 40 years that there is no credible alternative to Labour and Conservatives as it fits their agenda. The Greens are "bad for business" the Liberal Democrats "let down students" and to an extent that Labour are "marxists"

This is why I'm a massive advocate of voting for policies not people. There is room for a positive, collaborative almost collegiate politics in this country. Whilst we perpetuate the two party system no real change will happen. The only way to invoke change is to act on it.

 

[jimhigham]

I’m not sure why people think he’s going to get booted out. Have the last 6 months taught us nothing? Johnson will lead the Tory’s into the next election. And with scaredy cat, Starmer in charge of Labour, the Tory’s will likely win the next GE.
It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. These challenges to his power don’t weaken Johnson, with each failed mutiny he becomes more and more emboldened.

He is going nowhere for a good many years. Britain as you know it? Over. Democracy? Over. Social mobility? Over.

Get used to it.

I can certainly understand where your pessimism is coming from, but I suspect good old fashioned human nature might kick in by the time of the next general election. The cost of living crisis will almost certainly still be with us and there is a reasonable chance we shall be in, or have recently experienced, a recession. This is going to hurt far more than just the lowest earners in society.

As uninspiring as Starmer’s approach is, it makes a degree of electoral sense. Don’t say anything to frighten to soft Tory vote and hope that cold hard economics does the rest. It’s not fantastic but it could work. If it does, it’s imperative that a change to electoral system is advanced. If it isn’t, then the Tories will regain power in fairly short order and resume their destruction of the United Kingdom and its civil society.

 

[Seagull27]

I have no idea how I will vote come the GE. Tory by nature, but Boris and Sunak don't fit my outlook. Anyone other than Labour would be a wasted vote and I'm not drawn to all the noise Labour makes which seems to have no more substance than Boris is bad - fill in your own reason. So if I think about Labour, why should I vote for them? These are difficult times, so what's in it for me and everybody like me. Apparently Starmer is very honest and law abiding. Apparently 50 odd Labour MP's supported the rail strike ( I never support striking). Support and a promise of restoring the lost income of WASPI women would be a good start (Corbyn promised it, but too late to be believable). Restoring the theft of the Triple Lock Pension increase for this year would help. A plan to actually reduce the impact of the cost of living crisis for all would make a difference. There's a lot of other things an imaginative opposition could float to attract disenchanted Tories, but will we only hear them in a few months before the GE. There is little I like about the Tories at the moment, but apart from 'Not Boris' what does Labour have to offer?

Labour don't have to offer anything right now, in fact to do so would be foolish. I'm sure they are working on policies that will be released close to the next GE, but why would they give up their position now when there is no need to attract voters right now? If they did, the Tories would either adopt the policy themselves before Labour got a chance, or they would spend time and money to ridicule it, find loopholes, turn media attention on Labour etc.

The way the Tories are going, the best thing to do right now from a Labour point of view is to let them implode

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Labour don't have to offer anything right now, in fact to do so would be foolish. I'm sure they are working on policies that will be released close to the next GE, but why would they give up their position now when there is no need to attract voters right now? If they did, the Tories would either adopt the policy themselves before Labour got a chance, or they would spend time and money to ridicule it, find loopholes, turn media attention on Labour etc.

The way the Tories are going, the best thing to do right now from a Labour point of view is to let them implode

And if a policy changed due to circumstances the fingers would quickly be pointed and the cries of "u-turn" would be heard.

No need at all to release anything about policy at this stage. No opposition party would.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That analysis is utter bollocks!

The only orwellian thing is if anyone believes that version of events and is willing to forget their own lived experience from a year ago.

This is from a year ago by the same chap. It's ok calling it out but what evidence do you have to the contrary?

[tweet]1418218585143463940[/tweet]

 

[beorhthelm]

This is from a year ago by the same chap. It's ok calling it out but what evidence do you have to the contrary?

you remember the big fuss about EU not getting the AZ drug and wanting the supplies going to UK? thats because we didnt make procurement through the EU as said in his first point. thats the foundation of the (false) claim we did better because of brexit, because we could procure independently. he misrepresents the clotting issue, which was a change of recommendation due to the probabilities (because covid at time was so low risk in under 30's the tiny % risk from clotting was higher). and goes on to ignore the supply chain probelms with just about all vaccines though 2020. more on all will be in the vaccine thread as they were all talked about at the time. just wierd some need to make up false stories there are plenty of other failings to poke at.

 

[Springal]

What happened to the ground breaking ‘Oxford’ vaccine ? Seemed to disappear, wasn’t used for a lot of second jabs & boosters at all was it ? Another great British invention ?

 

[Robinjakarta]

I’m not sure why people think he’s going to get booted out. Have the last 6 months taught us nothing? Johnson will lead the Tory’s into the next election.

Not a hope in hell. He's finished. There is no way the Tories will have him leading them into the next election. He'll be ditched before then as Tory leaders (even Thatcher) are when they become electoral liabilities.

 

[beorhthelm]

What happened to the ground breaking ‘Oxford’ vaccine ? Seemed to disappear, wasn’t used for a lot of second jabs & boosters at all was it ? Another great British invention ?

thats the AstraZeneca vaccine. still in use.

 

[Is it PotG?]

What happened to the ground breaking ‘Oxford’ vaccine ? Seemed to disappear, wasn’t used for a lot of second jabs & boosters at all was it ? Another great British invention ?

He won't be happy with that one Clive.

 

[Springal]

thats the AstraZeneca vaccine. still in use.

It was never used in the U.K. for boosters though was it ? Pfizer and Moderna seemed to be all that was around ? Was it just supply ?

 

[KZNSeagull]

It was never used in the U.K. for boosters though was it ? Pfizer and Moderna seemed to be all that was around ? Was it just supply ?

2nd jabs were AZ. I certainly had 2.

 

[Is it PotG?]

It was never used in the U.K. for boosters though was it ? Pfizer and Moderna seemed to be all that was around ? Was it just supply ?

My 1st and 2nd were AZ

 

[Springal]

My 1st and 2nd were AZ

Third ? And doesn’t appear to have been on offer for those having 4th boosters a few months back

 

[Is it PotG?]

Third ? And doesn’t appear to have been on offer for those having 4th boosters a few months back

Nope, I thought it was better to mix and match for boosters....whatever the cheeky blighters renamed them.

 

[beorhthelm]

It was never used in the U.K. for boosters though was it ? Pfizer and Moderna seemed to be all that was around ? Was it just supply ?

its not going to boost as well where already given, and yes we had a huge supply of Pfizer to use. used as a booster where Pfizer used for first vaccination.

 

[Springal]

Makes sense if the recommendation is to mix and match.

Also noted on https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

Apart from being ‘approved’ AZ not mentioned anywhere anymore

 

[Thunder Bolt]

thats the AstraZeneca vaccine. still in use.

Is it? My husband had two jabs of AZ but his booster was Pfizer. Several other people I know who had AZ at first had Pfizer boosters.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not true.
I’ve had three Pfizer jabs.

 

[The Oldman]

I hate to say it as I cannot stand the man but he does seem to be doing rather well in organising the West against the Putin murderer. The war with Russia is the biggest issue facing the world at the moment. Suppose if Boris goes now then his successor would do the same but this war seems to suit Boris unlike anything else.