[News] Top Iranian military commander killed by air strikes

[Worried Man Blues]

I hope the truth will out, whatever it is.

 

[Icy Gull]

Given that we have Iranians visiting this site, it was an ill judged and thoughtless post, I apologise.

Could a mod delete it please?

 

[SeagullinExile]

Surely if Trudeau has evidence linking the tragedy with a missile attack, shouldn't he be handing it over to crash investigators?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I guess that is where your opinion differs from the NYtimes. It describes a small explosion:

‘A small explosion occurred when what appears to be a missile hit the plane above Parand, a city near the airport, but the plane did not explode, the video showed. The jet continued flying for several minutes and turned back toward the airport.’

If the missile hit the main fuselage where there is no fuel, I think the explosion might have been small. Only when the fuel ignites 30 seconds later do we see the large fire and subsequent fireball on impact. There is a video of a missile strike - hard to ignore that unless it’s fake news.

Appreciate your perspective by the way.

The US are perfectly capable of coming out with their own BS and propaganda, so I'm not too sure you can place too much emphasis on their news outlets.

I'm no expert, but I've watched the footage and unless someone said there was a missile going up, I wouldn't know what I was looking at, and to be fair, even the different shots can't really make out what's happening. I also have no idea what kind of explosion you might expect from a missile impacting a passenger jet in flight whether it hits the fuel tanks or not. Is this something you have experience of in terms of the damage a missile can cause, because its a big conclusion unless that's your field of expertise.

Let's not forget Boeing kept dangerous planes in the air suggesting piloting issues rather than the planes, and the US kept them flying even when other countries were grounding them.

Trump. Boeing. Iran. Like we can believe anything we're seeing or hearing.

 

[daveinplzen]

If the Iranians did shoot it down, the Americans must share some of the responsibility.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

If the Iranians did shoot it down, the Americans must share some of the responsibility.

1 particular American.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Iranian state tv admits that the aircraft was accidently shot down due to human error. The statement is from foreign minister Javed Zarif. He adds that those responsible will face consequences. Also apologising to the Iranian people, families and other nations involved.

A sad state of affairs. But, as in any conflict, its the civilian population that suffers. Both sides need to take responsibility in my opinion.

RIP.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Iranian state tv admits that the aircraft was accidently shot down due to human error. The statement is from foreign minister Javed Zarif. He adds that those responsible will face consequences. Also apologising to the Iranian people, families and other nations involved.

A sad state of affairs. But, as in any conflict, its the civilian population that suffers. Both sides need to take responsibility in my opinion.

RIP.

They knew all along.

I hope it’s people note the initial lying and denial by their religious/political government and eventually bring them down.

 

[SeagullinExile]

They knew all along.

I hope it’s people note the initial lying and denial by their religious/political government and eventually bring them down.

It took them 3 days to initially investigate. They could of denied everything for months but they didn't. It was a tragic accident. No different than the US downing an Iranian airliner, or Russia downing a Japanese one.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It took them 3 days to initially investigate. They could of denied everything for months but they didn't.

This was their line:

“The announcement by Iran's military marks a stark departure from the denials of recent days. As recently as Friday, Iran was insistent that the plane had not been shot down.
"The thing that is clear to us and that we can say with certainty is that this plane was not hit by a missile," Iran's Civil Aviation Organisation (CAOI) chief Ali Abedzadeh said.”

The only reason they did not deny it for months was that the evidence was overwhelming.

Of course it was a tragic accident but it has been made worse by a government who’s first response is lying and denial. As I said, I’m sure the top brass in Iran knew almost straight away that a missile had brought the plane down. They’ve spent the last few days trying to work out if they can get away with denying that it was a missile strike and have come to the conclusion that it’s impossible. They will now pick an individual as a scapegoat and probably have him executed.

 

[SeagullinExile]

This was their line:

“The announcement by Iran's military marks a stark departure from the denials of recent days. As recently as Friday, Iran was insistent that the plane had not been shot down.
"The thing that is clear to us and that we can say with certainty is that this plane was not hit by a missile," Iran's Civil Aviation Organisation (CAOI) chief Ali Abedzadeh said.”

The only reason they did not deny it for months was that the evidence was overwhelming.

Of course it was a tragic accident but it has been made worse by a government who’s first response is lying and denial. As I said, I’m sure the top brass in Iran knew almost straight away that a missile had brought the plane down. They’ve spent the last few days trying to work out if they can get away with denying that it was a missile strike and have come to the conclusion that it’s impossible. They will now pick an individual as a scapegoat and probably have him executed.

Blimey. I would of thought an intelligent person like yourself wouldn't jump to conclusions literally hours after the incident. The fact is Iran didn't. They investigated, and came to a conclusion within a pretty swift timescale.

Ultimately, it is indisputable that none of this would of happened if Trump hadn't assasinated an Iranian national hero.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Blimey. I would of thought an intelligent person like yourself wouldn't jump to conclusions literally hours after the incident. The fact is Iran didn't. They investigated, and came to a conclusion within a pretty swift timescale.

Iran did come to a very swift conclusion though.

See below.

Two stroies from Iranians make it obvious they are covering up. first they claimed immediatly that it was an engine failure, while also saying there was no radio messages and the black boxed was recoverd with some missing data. who can tell that its an engine failure within hour without any data? second, among all stories another came out that no one had seen a rocket plume which would be visible, so cant be missle. but its at night and whos looking at the sky for this? specifically making reference to non-observation as evidence is about as suspcious as you can get.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Blimey. I would of thought an intelligent person like yourself wouldn't jump to conclusions literally hours after the incident. The fact is Iran didn't. They investigated, and came to a conclusion within a pretty swift timescale.

Ultimately, it is indisputable that none of this would of happened if Trump hadn't assasinated an Iranian national hero.

I thought I would have a look and see who would be the first idiot to say that it was not the fault of Iran that 176 innocent people died when their plane was shot down. I thought I might have to look at the last twenty odd posts, or maybe wait as the news became more widely known. But the first post on the last current page of the thread and BINGO! Trump is a knob, but it was not him pulling the trigger on this one. Start backing your own team instead of the opposition, or is that what Jeremy has taught modern Labour sheep that they should do?

 

[wellquickwoody]

If the Iranians did shoot it down, the Americans must share some of the responsibility.

Unbelievable.

Yanks, one in particular, idiots? Yes. Did they pull the trigger? No.

 

[SeagullinExile]

I thought I would have a look and see who would be the first idiot to say that it was not the fault of Iran that 176 innocent people died when their plane was shot down. I thought I might have to look at the last twenty odd posts, or maybe wait as the news became more widely known. But the first post on the last current page of the thread and BINGO! Trump is a knob, but it was not him pulling the trigger on this one. Start backing your own team instead of the opposition, or is that what Jeremy has taught modern Labour sheep that they should do?

Haha. And it didn't take long for another Islamophobe to come out of the woodwork did it?

Your no different from a bog standard rascist pal.

If you seriously think that this would of happened without the assassination then your a fool.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Iran did come to a very swift conclusion though.

See below.

Why cover it up for 3 days Hugo? I also suspect many people were filming the sky that night, in anticipation of a US counter strike.

Out of interest, do you believe this was done on purpose?

 

[Hugo Rune]

Why cover it up for 3 days Hugo? I also suspect many people were filming the sky that night, in anticipation of a US counter strike.

Out of interest, do you believe this was done on purpose?

I think cover-ups are the go to solution for the Iranian government. They took 3 days to assess whether they could get away with it.

It was clearly an accident. I’ve not seen anyone dispute this, even Trump thinks it was ‘probably a mistake’.

It’s also clear (as Blair proved) that as a westerner, when you meddle in the Middle East, you’d better dig 200+ graves for innocent lives lost for every ‘baddie’ you kill.

 

[SeagullinExile]

I think cover-ups are the go to solution for the Iranian government. They took 3 days to assess whether they could get away with it.

It was clearly an accident. I’ve not seen anyone dispute this, even Trump thinks it was ‘probably a mistake’.

It’s also clear (as Blair proved) that as a westerner, when you meddle in the Middle East, you’d better dig 200+ graves for innocent lives lost for every ‘baddie’ you kill.

Agreed. But from the Iranian pov, the west made claims almost immediately. Iran defended its position until the facts were clear. It has admitted its mistake and come clean. As I said earlier, they didn't have to play ball tbh. Also, the majority of westerners killed were duel Iranian citizens, which the media barely mentioned at first. I also fail to understand why they make the point of saying a Russian missile was used, when half the planet uses them. As for Tony Blair talking about innocents dying? No offence, but that made me chuckle. Pot, kettle, black and all that!

At the end of the day we should be thinking about the poor souls that lost their lives, not apportioning blame. A sad result of an avoidable conflict.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Haha. And it didn't take long for another Islamophobe to come out of the woodwork did it?

Your no different from a bog standard rascist pal.

If you seriously think that this would of happened without the assassination then your a fool.

Oh fxxk me, true to form a modern liberal leftie calls someone that does not agree with their point of view ‘a racist’. Quelle surprise!

When will you idiots learn that spitting your dummy out and going ‘wah, wah, wah’ does not win you the argument. Would you like to ask the Ayatollah if he could spare you a piece of white paper next? But you probably don’t understand that do you?

 

[SeagullinExile]

Oh fxxk me, true to form a modern liberal leftie calls someone that does not agree with their point of view ‘a racist’. Quelle surprise!

When will you idiots learn that spitting your dummy out and going ‘wah, wah, wah’ does not win you the argument. Would you like to ask the Ayatollah if he could spare you a piece of white paper next? But you probably don’t understand that do you?

Hehe. Keeping yourself true to form eh?

Once a bigot always a bigot.