Tony Martin... an innocent man?

[Tom Bombadil]

As far as I'm concerned the court got it right first time when they found Mad Tony guilty of murder. If a premeditated attack in which you kill someone by shooting them in the back isn't murder then god help us all. I don't care if the kid was buggering the farmers livestock at the time, the right to life always outweighs the right of somebody to defend their private property.

 

[dwayne]

As far as I'm concerned the court got it right first time when they found Mad Tony guilty of murder. If a premeditated attack in which you kill someone by shooting them in the back isn't murder then god help us all. I don't care if the kid was buggering the farmers livestock at the time, the right to life always outweighs the right of somebody to defend their private property.

good post.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

As Simster has already posted Tony Martin shot and killed an unarmed 16 year kid in the back with an illegal firearm. Why that makes him a hero is beyond me.

The 3 strikes argument frankly also sounds ludicrous. Are people really suggesting that if some pikey commits a shoplifting offence, a drunk and disorderly, and a criminal damage the threat to society is so immense that they should be locked up (at public expense) for the rest of the lives ?

I'm with you on this one, Dandyman. Why Tony Martin is "heroic" still defeats me. And I wonder how "heroic" he'd have become if he'd shot (in the back) someone who wasn't a diddicoi?

Tony Martin has a long history of instability. Made all the more dangerous by his fondness for guns, which is why he'd already had his shotgun license revoked. And while I'm not suggesting that being something of a looney is any excuse for him to be burgled, let alone repeatedly burgled, he's still bound by the law. Which, for all sorts of good reasons, doesn't allow people to shoot first and not even bother to ask questions later.

Tony Martin killed someone and that's why he was sent to prison. A more sensible option might have been committal to a psychiatric unit but either way, he did the crime and had to do some sort of time. That he is getting hero status is seriously scary. Nearly as scary as Martin himself....

 

[Dandyman]

Dandyman, couldn't a judge determine whether an offence counts as a "strike"? I'm not suggesting that 3 shoplifting offences should mean a lifetime behind bars, but surely a string of say 10 such offences inside a year should count as a strike?

Having had my flat broken into and my Gti nicked (serves me right for living in London) I can understand the frustration that leads people to want to throw away the key. That said the fact that we are now talking about the need for Judges to exercise discretion, surely means that the idea of a one size fits all approach (which is what 3 strikes is)doesn't really work.

 

[Mr Popkins]

WHAT CRIME DID THE MAN COMMIT?

ok he shouldnt have had a gun ,but if you were harrassed ,time after time and the police did nothing about it, what would you do?

im sorry but if some little shit came into my house with the intent to burgle me then i would be so angy Id use force on the kid whether it be by fists or other means.

I for one would be happy to pay more Taxes to build more prisons to put people who commit crimes..

robbers who break into a house scare an old lady witless. will end up getting something like a 12 month strech, this old ladies life will have been ruined, terrified in her own home! the person will probably be release in 6 months for good behavour, things like this need to carry at least 5 years.

the problem with this world is there are too many Left wing people who think slapped wrists is the way forward

we need to get tough on crime.. if we were in the first place Mr Martin would not have had to take such drastic action!


Tony Martin

Man of the people!

 

[Brovion]

Have to agree with Dandyman on the '3 strikes and out' view - you end up imprisoning someone for 5 years for nicking a frozen pizza.

As far as Tony Martin is concerend - I'm neutral. Yes it was wrong, yes he deserved (IMO) to go to prison. But that said I have very little sympathy for Barras and his mate, if they hadn't been intent on terrorising and robbing a lonely old man Barras would still be alive today. If you don;t want to risk death and injury whilst breaking the law may I respectfully suggest you don't do it.

A lot of the blame must go to the Magistrates' Courts. Barras was an habitual petty thief. Time and time again he could have been locked up (the most recent being just before his bungled robbery attempt on Martin's farm) but the beaks kept bottling it. All they did was keep patting him on the head and telling him to run along and be a good boy in future.

 

[Yorkie]

When I saw the burglar in my kitchen I wasn't scared strangely enough.

I went downstairs thinking it was either my son or daughter in there (it was 5am) and called out 'Who is in the kitchen?'

As I reached the door he turned tail and ran. I still didn't feel frightened at that point.

I rang the police and then when giving a statement I broke down and couldn't stop for about 3 hours (delayed shock)

I was fine after that. Things would have been a lot different had he attacked me though.

My son couldn't believe he's slept through it all

 

[WATFORD O]

I think the thing that gets missed soooooooo often in these cases is that fact that he was FOUND GUILTY BY A JURY OR 12 PEOPLE not a looney lefty judge but a jury. None of us heard the evidence in the same way as them but in this instance I think justice has been served.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Jeez, what's happening?

I agree with Watford O.

 

[WATFORD O]

Lord, Wisdom takes time but comes to most eventually.....

 

[zefarelly]

If I find some little (or big) shyster in my house, he'll get what ever I can lay my hands on wrapped round his head pronto, Ive been burgled before, by kids, they made a bloody mess, and stole sufficient documentation to carry out some bloody serious fraud, if theyd been caught (they wherent, the police where frankly a complete waste of time space and oxygen) theyd have just got slapped wrists no doubt, I think thats disgraceful, kids or not, they stole cheque books, passport, cash, and forms of ID, now forgive me if Im wrong but thats not the sort of thing kids mucking about nick.

as for TM, hes quite clearly a bit of a loon, and as Roz rightly says, probably would have benefitted from mental assistANCE RATHER THAN prison, but I agree with Popkins, and englishmans home is his castle, and I will defend it to the death if need be.

incidentally, TM said in yestaerdays paper that he thought prison was far too nicer place for most people in it! I agree with that

rant over

 

[tedebear]

im sorry but if some little shit came into my house with the intent to burgle me then i would be so angy Id use force on the kid whether it be by fists or other means.

Self defence is not a crime Mr Popkins and I agree with you that if someone entered our house and attempted to take our things then I'd try and scare them off - if they attacked me or my loved ones then I'd defend my self whatever it takes ....

However in Mr Martins case its not that easy....

He had a history, he had an unlicensed weapon, and he shot the kid in the back....If the kid had gone for Mr Martins jugular with a steak knife and Mr Martin had stabbed him back in order to save his own life then that would be an entirely different story and I'd give Mr Marting my full support.... but its not the case here....

 

[Gritt23]

I think the thing that gets missed soooooooo often in these cases is that fact that he was FOUND GUILTY BY A JURY OR 12 PEOPLE not a looney lefty judge but a jury. None of us heard the evidence in the same way as them but in this instance I think justice has been served.

But the jury are only judging the facts of the case, and that is that he did indeed shoot the guy dead. They do not get to decide whether he SHOULD be entitled to defend himself in that way. That is not for a jury to decide, that is a matter for the government.

Mr Blair, it is simple, either get serious with your so called fight on crime, or let us take it into our own hands. If we felt safe in our homes, and believed the legal system would deal with these incidents satisfactorily then the likes of Tony Martin would not be resorting to such actions.

Personally, I hope the former occurs, as a lawless society would obviously be a disaster and cannot be allowed to happen. But something needs to change so that we feel safe, and have some faith restored.

 

[WATFORD O]

Gritt, they can take into account circumstances and ask for these to be taken into acount by the judge. The appeal court judges got it right. Either way thank god none of us ever get put in that position.

 

[dwayne]

Do u have a gun then Watford?? Didn't c u in Area on saturday?

 

[WATFORD O]

dwayne, No I dont have a gun. I'll leave that up to you G's. I wasnt in area saturday night. Never said I was going to be.

 

[zefarelly]

unfortunately in some instances and areas we already have a lawless society, even as lucky as I am to live where I do, the plice are virtually non existent part timers and petty crime is an ongoing problem. If the police actually policed rather than worry about where next months budgets coming from (motorists mainly) then we'd all be a lot better off

 

[CHAPPERS]

I didn't know that Brendan Fearon was released a third of the way through an 18 month sentence for dealing Heroin.

6 months for dealing Heroin, there is something wrong wth that, Heroin dealers are scum and should be f***ing shot.

 

[WATFORD O]

chapmans, Yep agree with that but its a seperate case. Pikey scum.

 

[Gritt23]

Police may seem useless fuckwits, but the truth is they are just prioritising, and although grannies may get attacked in their own and the police do sod all about it ... you can bet they were just out there dealing with bigger crimes. Ahem.


From the Argus a few weeks ago ...

Three men were arrested and locked up in police cells for seven hours after
"stealing" seaweed from a beach to feed pet tortoises. Friends Simon
Braisby, Tony Sims and Deon Marshall were gathering sea kale on Eastbourne
beach for Mr Sims' five tortoises when they were spotted by police. Two
squad cars and a police motorcyclist tailed the trio for three miles. They
were arrested, handcuffed and put in the back of different police cars, then
locked up in separate cells while Mr Braisby's home was searched. After six
hours in custody the men were interviewed and eventually released without
charge. They have lodged an official complaint.
Father of two Mr Braisby, 30, said: "When we got to our house the police
swooped on us. There were at least 15 of them - they just kept coming. At
first when they opened the boot of the car we fell about laughing. We
thought they must have got the wrong people and mixed us up with bank
robbers. It wasn't so funny in the cells - they were filthy and the food was
disgusting. Our solicitor brought us pies and pasties, which was the first
food we'd had in seven hours. At one point I was told we might be there
overnight."
Mr Sims, 26, lives with brother-in-law Mr Braisby in Brodrick Road,
Eastbourne, with his five tortoises, Frederick, Abigail, Merry, Thomas and
Charlie, as well as bearded dragons and iguanas. He said: "We were just
driving down and at first there was a police motorcyclist who waved us over.
Then there two cars and behind them another five. They boxed us in and Simon
had to climb out over the passenger side. When we got out there was a crowd
of coppers. When they told us we were all under arrest we just started
laughing. We thought they must have the wrong people. They didn't see the
funny side of it, though. I thought they would deal with it at the side of
the road but they took us to the station."
Mr Sims said he picked a couple of bags of seaweed every week as his pets
like an organic diet. He said: "We are still going to pick it because no one
at any time told us we weren't allowed to or it was against the law." But
Eastbourne Borough Council insists the seaweed is "rare fauna" and is
backing the police stance. Mike Thompson, Eastbourne's culture spokesman on
Eastbourne Borough Council, said: "It is protected because it is quite a
rare fauna of sea cabbage. It's part of the Sovereign nature park. There is
a sign up saying you shouldn't pick seaweed. We have to preserve it but I'm
quite surprised the police shot in like that."
A spokesman for Sussex Police said they were unable to comment as a
complaint had been lodged and was being investigated.