Tonight - More4, The God Delusion

[Don Quixote]

Everyone seems to hate this guy but i've never got it, you cannot prove that there IS a god any more than you can prove there isn't. If anything I'd imagine it would be easier to disprove his existence than prove it.

Prove to me anything is real...

 

[Acker79]

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

For some reason this debate is making me think of this quote.

 

[Stoo82]

Maybe each person creates there own 'god'. Again, going with the fate, mother nature and luck theory, maybe if you need a 'god' you create one. And if you do create one, does the, 'I think, therefore I am' saying make 'god' exist?

So, for some people, who do not need to create a 'god', 'god' does not exist, but for people who have created a 'god', 'god' does exist.

 

[stu7878]

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

For some reason this debate is making me think of this quote.

Because it makes sense?!

 

[Robbie G]

People haven't suddenly become clever in the past fifty years you know. The greek philosophers were thinking this all the time. We have had religion for a very long time now, why is it wrong? People just seem to want to be able to do whatever they want without consequences...

But different thoughts and ideas change over time. Perhaps this is a period in history where religion becomes more doubted.

I'm not saying this is necessarily true, just that from an economics perspective (of which I do have knowledge) ideas have chopped and changed a lot in history.

 

[VeronaSeagull]

Bad people do bad things, good people to good things. For a good person to bad things, that takes religion

 

[stu7878]

People haven't suddenly become clever in the past fifty years you know. The greek philosophers were thinking this all the time. We have had religion for a very long time now, why is it wrong? People just seem to want to be able to do whatever they want without consequences...

Because back then it was still a case of not being able to prove that religion, any religion, was in fact truth or not. So they philosophised about it.

Although now, we cannot prove that there is or isn't a god, anymore than we could then. We CAN dis-prove many many religious claims, that could not be dis-proved at the time.

That is unless you get into the philosophy of are we even here at all, in which case there is no point even discussing anything.

 

[Lewes' best seagull]

Essentially, the rule into getting into heaven is if one believes that Jesus died to save our sins, one would get in. (correct me if I'm wrong)

So that means a baby, died within it's first year, had never heard of christianity would go to hell? This "god" seems a bit harsh.

To me, the idea that someone is inthe sky who is all loving and all caring is proposterous (sp?) with all the suffering in the world.

 

[VeronaSeagull]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=search

this about sums up my feelings on it

 

[Stoo82]

Essentially, the rule into getting into heaven is if you believe that Jesus died to save our sins, one would get in. (correct me if I'm wrong)

So that means a baby, died within it's first year, had never heard of christianity would go to hell? This "god" seems a bit harsh.

To me, the idea that someone is inthe sky who is all loving and all caring is proposterous (sp?) with all the suffering in the world.

I believe all you have to do to get into heven is to belive in God. Or so the Bible says.

But lets not forget the Bible was writtern by Romans and Catholics, Catholics who are the decendants of the Church of St Peter (the Pope) and not from the Church of Jesus Christ. Maybe they got it wrong.

 

[Curious Orange]

Been married three times, the bloke's a deranged fool.

He has been married to Lalla Ward for 18 years, that seems quite committed to me.

 

[Stoo82]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=search

this about sums up my feelings on it

I like Dave Allen.

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[stu7878]

I agree Lewes, and refer you back to my nazis (believe in jesus) in heaven, jews (dont believe in jesus) in hell argument preiviously. This of course is only an argument against christianity, not religion, or a belief in god as a whole.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I believe all you have to do to get into heven is to belive in God. Or so the Bible says.

But lets not forget the Bible was writtern by Romans and Catholics, Catholics who are the decendants of the Church of St Peter (the Pope) and not from the Church of Jesus Christ. Maybe they got it wrong.

As a matter of interest, if "heaven" exists, what does happen to babies that die in their first year? Are they immediately elevated to a plane where communication and rationalisation is possible? Will their essential being / soul progress beyond baby stage? If they predecease their parents who will be waiting for them? Unpleasant questions but how are they answered by the religions that do believe in "heaven"?

 

[beorhthelm]

The greek philosophers were thinking this all the time.

thats true. they also identified and accepted the limitation of deities. they only didnt outright reject religion as it was cultral tradition as much as faith. but then they didnt have a single "god" and a book telling them how to live, they just got on with things themselves. and we really do know an awfull lot more about the physical world than the ancient Greeks did.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

What is it with human beings.... they have to have all the answers.... be able to pigeon hole everything.

I do not think we will ever know whether there is a soul..... it is beyond our comprehension and our ability to know... I do not think evolution will provide god-like creatures who understand everything.

For me, this is what frightens me with people like Dawkins. Religions are part of man's determination to understand everything... and scientific aetheism is doing the same thing.... it has become a faith in itself with Dawkins as its high prophet and just like religions it will spawn its radicals and witch-burners.

I am religious (very mildly) and believe in a god but it is a personal issue as I think faith should always be. I no longer accept any state religion per se because they are all part of this infantile human effort to understand and control. I may believe in heaven but I do not believe in any scriptual description of heaven... in reality its probably way past my ability to comprehend.... and I have no problem with that.

If only Dawkins had no problem with that... then I might take him more seriously.... scrub that I do take him seriously..... he is dangerous.... but I might be more prepared to listen to him.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Cant think of one single subject that has caused more death and destruction over the last couple of millenia than religion. Its a blight on the world.

People killing other people in the name of some fictional character would be funny if it didnt cause so much fecking misery.

You must have spent a lot of time asleep at school during history classes

The biggest modern day factor in mass deaths is communism.

Over the last couple of millenia its land.

Any "religious" conflicts pale into minuscule insignificance statistically speaking.

So while there may have been some relgious conflicts the number that died as a result of that conflict arent that large.

 

[daveinprague]

yeah, the Spanish occupied S.American land for their king...who was of course, ordained by?
The protestants, have fought wars with the catholics through a large slice of history.
I cant begin to imagine the death toll, just in central Europe, never mind western Europe and Britain from wars between protestants and the holy roman empire.
Muslms against Christians. Hindu agains Islam, Jews against idolators.
All of them right...because its in 'gods' name.
and to move it on..ok...lets say its the 2nd or 3rd biggest reason for death and misery on this planet...looks good on Gods cv doesnt it.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

You think you think? Interesting, maybe you are just a robot? How would you know?

People haven't suddenly become clever in the past fifty years you know. The greek philosophers were thinking this all the time. We have had religion for a very long time now, why is it wrong? People just seem to want to be able to do whatever they want without consequences...

Prove to me anything is real...

DQ, your argument is confusing me a little. Are you defending religion or promoting agnosticism?

 

[beorhthelm]

I am religious (very mildly) and believe in a god but it is a personal issue as I think faith should always be. ...

If only Dawkins had no problem with that... then I might take him more seriously....

i think you'll find that is his position, that faiths should be personal and as such pose no issue. its the political and anti-science side and the indoctrination of the young into parents faith he opposes.