Today's F1 Grand Prix on C4

[Papa Lazarou]

He will simply say that his hands were not on the wheel as he was waving them at Hamilton in frustration.

Although the telemetry from the car should be able to tell if there was any pressure exerted onto the wheel because it showed that Rosberg had not applied pressure last year when he failed to turn forcing Lewis to crash into him.

Do F1 cars have a tendency to swerve to the right the moment you take your hands off the steering wheel? That's dangerous.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

And it was obvious that Vettel deliberately drove into Hamilton's car after he shunted him from behind... why did he drive alongside otherwise? And how on earth did he suddenly swerve to the right when he was alongside?

He actually shouldn't even be drawing level with Hamiltons car on a safety car, let alone trying to run him off the track. So a 10 second penalty is exactly what you'd expect of the stewards towards a German, it sucks so much of Schumacer (scuse spelling) cheating his way to victory over Hill.

He will simply say that his hands were not on the wheel as he was waving them at Hamilton in frustration.

Although the telemetry from the car should be able to tell if there was any pressure exerted onto the wheel because it showed that Rosberg had not applied pressure last year when he failed to turn forcing Lewis to crash into him.

Sorry that is trying to find an excuse for road rage.

 

[Hillian1]

Do F1 cars have a tendency to swerve to the right the moment you take your hands off the steering wheel? That's dangerous.

It was a street circuit though so any hump in the road would cause the car to swerve of it's own accord.

That's what he would say, I wouldn't believe it for a minute but he will claim it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Whilst the race was incredibly dramatic that - for me - was a sub-standard circuit that rendered the whole event a lottery.

Event watching qualifying with the wife on the Saturday I predicted at least 2-3 safety cars on the Sunday just because of that extremely narrow bend before the castle where cars were hitting the kerb and losing control of the back end with regularity.

There also didn't seem to be that many spectators either. However, Bernie signed Azerbaijan up to a 10-year deal with a minimum 5 years guarantee, so this "stock car race" is likely to continue until for at least 3 more years.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

It was a street circuit though so any hump in the road would cause the car to swerve of it's own accord.

That's what he would say, I wouldn't believe it for a minute but he will claim it.

He doesn't need to claim it, he is unapproachable now.

 

[Audax]

And it was obvious that Vettel deliberately drove into Hamilton's car after he shunted him from behind... why did he drive alongside otherwise? And how on earth did he suddenly swerve to the right when he was alongside?

I think in this instance the stewards probably decided that the swerve couldn't be proven to be deliberate. Given he had hands off the wheel gesticulating, it's entirely plausible that he simply didn't realise he'd moved the wheel so as to cause the swerve and subsequent contact.

I would think the main reason Vet got away with it is because he didn't appear to cause any significant damage to Ham's car (unless the contact did shake Ham's headrest out of place which cost him time later on). Had he driven into the side of Ham and compromised his car I think that would have resulted in a greater punishment.

Personally I enjoy seeing this sort of action, drivers losing their temper etc so I wouldn't want to see it punished too harshly

Well, the Vettel incident was before the red flag, and the headrest after, so I'd put the headrest entirely down to a Hamilton/Mercedes team failure to fit it properly after the red flag.

Thank you for a very well documented reply! However on your very last point regarding Vettel, they could have black flagged him, the 10 second penalty was the least they could have done.

That's actually not the case. The 10 second stop-and-go is the maximum allowed "normal" penalty. To impose anything heftier, it has to be considered an "extreme case". In "extreme case" they can enforce any of the following: They can drop a driver any number of grid positions at the next Grand Prix; impose time penalties; reprimand a driver; exclude a driver from the results; or suspend a driver from the next race.

In this instance they've additionally given Vettel 3 points on his licence (I'm unsure if these count under the "extreme" rules - I believe they don't). This places him just 3 points away from a race ban (although 2 points expire after the Austrian race) and I'm sure this came into their calculations with regards what to do. It essentially means Vettel *must* avoid any controversy at the next race, as a further reprimand could see him banned for a race.

At the moment, I can only assume that the stewards felt that this didn't qualify as an "extreme case" as they've not issued any of the defined "extreme case" penalties. I haven't got time to hunt it down right now (and it may not be available yet), but from memory the stewards decisions are normally published after the event.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

It was a lash out - remember when a young David Beckham did that in a world cup match Vs Argentina - that was his day over .....
Even in boxing, you can't hit an opponent while the ref has asked the competitors to "stop boxing" - the safety car is effectively saying "stop racing"

As others have said, punishment does not fit the crime.
Reminded me of Shumi deliberately driving into Damon Hill to break his car and prevent him winning [the championship? IIRC]
German in a Ferrari - ho hum ...

 

[Bold Seagull]

It was a lash out - remember when a young David Beckham did that in a world cup match Vs Argentina - that was his day over .....
Even in boxing, you can't hit an opponent while the ref has asked the competitors to "stop boxing" - the safety car is effectively saying "stop racing"

As others have said, punishment does not fit the crime.
Reminded me of Shumi deliberately driving into Damon Hill to break his car and prevent him winning [the championship? IIRC]
German in a Ferrari - ho hum ...

All be it Schmacher was in a Bennetton for that one.

 

[Audax]

It was a lash out - remember when a young David Beckham did that in a world cup match Vs Argentina - that was his day over .....
Even in boxing, you can't hit an opponent while the ref has asked the competitors to "stop boxing" - the safety car is effectively saying "stop racing"

As others have said, punishment does not fit the crime.

It does as per the rules. I happen to agree that it was a "lash out" and that it deserved a heavier punishment. But I also understand that the stewards have to act within the scope the rules allow them to act and must also be able to reasonably justify their decision. With that in mind, in this instance it is the rulebook that is deficient in that it inadequately handles this sort of situation.

Edit: and, I would add, the teams play a large role in this inadequacy: they've requested greater leniency in the rules on punishments, which have placed a greater burden of proof onto the Stewards before any punishment is issued. It is this same leniency that meant that Bottas wasn't punished for the incident with Kimi (in previous years he most likely would have been punished for "causing contact").

 

[Badger]

In this instance they've additionally given Vettel 3 points on his licence (I'm unsure if these count under the "extreme" rules - I believe they don't). This places him just 3 points away from a race ban (although 2 points expire after the Austrian race) and I'm sure this came into their calculations with regards what to do. It essentially means Vettel *must* avoid any controversy at the next race, as a further reprimand could see him banned for a race.

Can he not just go on a Driver Awareness Course instead of taking the 3 points on his licence?

 

[drew]

you would be correct, they are always talking about running in dirty air and the effects it has on the car.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1jqfok/question_slipstream_vs_dirty_air/

'Dirty air' is the turbulence, not the exhaust!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Exhaust emissions? Do you mean the effect of the front car on the aerodynamics of the following car?

I meant this

I’m sure I’ve heard Brundle talk about Hot, Dirty air having an effect on the following cars performance due to cooling issues.

They can't drive F1 cars as close as the Formula E cars and this is one of the reasons.

 

[Hillian1]

Incident being looked at again.

Good.

 

[Icy Gull]

Incident being looked at again.

Good.

At Jean Todts request surprisingly, meeting on 03 July and result to be announced before the Austrian Grand Prix. Come FIA do the right think and ban Vettel for a race

 

[Iggle Piggle]

5 place grid penalty is more than enough. It's hardly James Hunt is it?

 

[Icy Gull]

5 place grid penalty is more than enough. It's hardly James Hunt is it?

More Pastor Maldonado. Vettel has become a bit of a loose cannon since joining Ferrari. Do him good to get a ban

 

[Bold Seagull]

5 place grid penalty is more than enough. It's hardly James Hunt is it?

That would be interesting. Change one of the 6 power unit elements too many times, and it is a 10 place grid penalty (which you could argue Lewis lost the title on last season). Intentionally drive into someone in a rage – 5 grid place penalty.

Hunt was no shunt either, just a myth created by the pun headlining making press of the time. You watch Lauder interviewed and nothing but praise for Hunt's driving.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

That would be interesting. Change one of the 6 power unit elements too many times, and it is a 10 place grid penalty (which you could argue Lewis lost the title on last season). Intentionally drive into someone in a rage – 5 grid place penalty.

Hunt was no shunt either, just a myth created by the pun headlining making press of the time. You watch Lauder interviewed and nothing but praise for Hunt's driving.

There's 2 different arguments here.

Should Alonso and Vandorne be stuck at the back of the grid consistently because of the duff Honda engine? No. The testing rules mean Honda will never catch up and the regulations punish them twice, arguably more. It's a farce and the rules are wrong.

Vettel banged wheels with Lewis. He knew full well what and where he was doing it (I.e least likely to cause damage). The 10 second stop go is the worst penalty given before a black flag and I can't remember the last one of those I've seen. Sure it was bad by modern day standards but handbags in the grand scheme of things. A grid penalty on top of that is more than enough.

Besides which as football fans we should all like seb. He goes to football games in dark glasses and wig to sit amongst peasants such as us. Can't imagine Lewis at Stevenage v Crawley.

As for Hunt. That's a thread on its own.

 

[Audax]

From what I'm seeing they've reopened the Vettel penalty situation and will reassess on basis of his history. In particular they may be thoroughly unimpressed with his failure to admit fault and that being a pattern of behaviour they want to squash.

 

[JJ McClure]

I'm not sure that a grid penalty will achieve much in this instance. SV has one of the four best cars on the grid so where ever you make him start he's still likely to end up in the top four which is hardly much of a punishment. For me he should be disqualified from the results of the Azerbaijan GP, which is what should've happened on the day.