Time to deal with Israel?

[Pavilionaire]

I see that not content with killing hundreds of children and bombing civilian targts the Israelis have now intentionally bombed an oil refinery, causing the worst pollution ever seen in the Eastern Mediterranean.

For me enough is enough. It's about time we told the Yanks to f*** off supporting the Israeli government while this sort of shit is going on, get the UN forces in there to sort out the borders and then get Israel carved up the way it should have been in 1948.

Israel is a tin pot country the size of Wales with 5 million people, and they're totally destabilising the world with their antics. Wankers.

And yes, I know they're being provoked, but boy don't they know how to overreact?!

 

[ali jenkins]

*And breathe!*

 

[Pavilionaire]

I've breathed and I still stand by that.

 

[ali jenkins]

I do also agree with you though, something has to be done before they just blow each other up untill last man standing wins!

 

[Robot Chicken]

Israel is a tin pot country the size of Wales with 5 million people, and they're totally destabilising the world with their antics.

Israel is also surrounded by enemies bent on her destruction.

Countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt have a vested interest in the war, countries who do not want to see a nuclear armed Iran dominant in the area. Because obviously they've been up in arms over the war, haven't they.

Hizbollah has basically hijacked Lebanon and are launching attacks from populated areas, from old people's homes etc etc. Imagine if we were at war with Scotland and they kept bombing the north, attacking places like Carlisle and Newcastle. You can't give in to these terrorists. Yes mistakes have unfortunately been made but this happens in war. And this is a war we'd better hope the Israelis don't lose.

Israel is tin pot you say? What a fool you are and how little you know.

 

[Cian]

Israel is tin pot you say? What a fool you are and how little you know.

...well, beyond developing the wanky bastarding encryption system Sky use, I can't think of anything else Israel has done that influences on my life bar my taxes having to pay for hospital care for Palestinian (and now Lebanese) kids with serious burns, amputations, etc; to the tune of a few tens of million a year...

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Speech published in Maariv 31 - by Israeli Prime Minister

> >>Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world. I, the Prime Minister of
> >>Israel, am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible
> >>pictures from Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken
> >>and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort
> >
> >>that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you
> >
> >>straight in the eye and telling you that the State of Israel will
> >>continue its military campaign in Lebanon.
> >>
> >>The Israel Defense Forces will continue to attack targets from which
> >>missiles and Katyusha rockets are fired at hospitals, old age homes and
> >
> >>kindergartens in Israel. I have instructed the security forces and the
> >>IDF to continue to hunt for the Katyusha stockpiles and launch sites
> >>from which these savages are bombarding the State of Israel.
> >>
> >>We will not hesitate, we will not apologize and we will not back off.
> >>If they continue to launch missiles into Israel from Kfar Kana, we will
> >
> >>continue to bomb Kfar Kana. Today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow.
> >>Here, there and everywhere. The children of
> >>
> >>Kfar Kana could now be sleeping peacefully in their homes, unmolested,
> >>had the agents of the devil not taken over their land and turned the
> >>lives of our children into hell.
> >>
> >>Ladies and gentlemen, it's time you understood: the Jewish state will
> >>no longer be trampled upon. We will no longer allow anyone to exploit
> >>population centers in order to bomb our citizens. No one will be able
> >>to hide anymore behind women and children in order to kill our women
> >>and children. This anarchy is over. You can condemn us, you can boycott
> >
> >>us, you can stop visiting us and, if necessary, we will stop visiting
> > you.
> >>
> >>A voice for six million citizens
> >>
> >>Today I am serving as the voice of six million bombarded Israeli
> >>citizens who serve as the voice of six million murdered Jews who were
> >>melted down to dust and ashes by savages in Europe. In both cases,
> >>those responsible for these evil acts were, and are, barbarians devoid
> >>of all humanity, who set themselves one simple goal: to wipe the Jewish
> >
> >>race off the face of the earth, as Adolph Hitler said, or to wipe the
> >>State of Israel off the map, as Mahmoud Ahmedinjad proclaims.
> >>
> >>And you - just as you did not take those words seriously then, you are
> >>ignoring them again now. And that, ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the
> >
> >>world, will not happen again. Never again will we wait for bombs that
> >>never came to hit the gas chambers. Never again will we wait for
> >>salvation that never arrives. Now we have our own air force. The Jewish
> >
> >>people are now capable of standing up to those who seek their
> >>destruction - those people will no longer be able to hide behind women
> >>and children. They will no longer be able to evade their
> > responsibility.
> >>
> >>Every place from which a Katyusha is fired into the State of Israel
> >>will be a legitimate target for us to attack. This must be stated
> >>clearly and publicly, once and for all. You are welcome to judge us, to
> >
> >>ostracize us, to boycott us and to vilify us. But to kill us?
> > Absolutely not.
> >>
> >>Four months ago I was elected by hundreds of thousands of citizens to
> >>the office of Prime Minister of the government of Israel, on the basis
> >>of my plan for unilaterally withdrawing from 90 percent of the areas of
> >
> >>Judea and Samaria, the birth place and cradle of the Jewish people; to
> >>end most of the occupation and to enable the Palestinian people to turn
> >
> >>over a new leaf and to calm things down until conditions are ripe for
> >>attaining a permanent settlement between us.
> >>
> >>The Prime Minister who preceded me, Ariel Sharon, made a full
> >>withdrawal from the Gaza Strip back to the international border, and
> >>gave the Palestinians there a chance to build a new reality for
> >>themselves. The Prime Minister who preceded him, Ehud Barak, ended the
> >>lengthy Israeli presence in Lebanon and pulled the IDF back to the
> >>international border, leaving the land of the cedars to flourish,
> >>develop and establish its democracy and its economy.
> >>
> >>What did the State of Israel get in exchange for all of this? Did we
> >>win even one minute of quiet? Was our hand, outstretched in peace, met
> >>with a handshake of encouragement? Ehud Barak's peace initiative at
> >>Camp David let loose on us a wave of suicide bombers who smashed and
> >>blew to pieces over 1,000 citizens, men, women and children. I don't
> >>remember you being so enraged then. Maybe that happened because we did
> >>not allow TV close-ups of the dismembered body parts of the Israeli
> > youngsters at the Dolphinarium?
> >>Or of the shattered lives of the people butchered while celebrating the
> >
> >>Passover seder at the Park Hotel in Netanya? What can you do - that's
> >>the way we are. We don't wave body parts at the camera. We grieve
> > quietly.
> >>
> >>We do not dance on the roofs at the sight of the bodies of our enemy's
> >>children - we express genuine sorrow and regret. That is the monstrous
> >>behavior of our enemies. Now they have risen up against us. Tomorrow
> >>they will rise up against you. You are already familiar with the
> >>murderous taste of this terror. And you will taste more.
> >>
> >>In a loud and clear voice
> >>
> >>And Ariel Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza. What did it get us? A barrage
> >>of Kassem missiles fired at peaceful settlements and the kidnapping of
> >>soldiers. Then too, I don't recall you reacting with such alarm. And
> >>for six years, the withdrawal from Lebanon has drawn the vituperation
> >>and crimes of a dangerous, extremist Iranian agent, who took over an
> >>entire country in the name of religious fanaticism and is trying to
> >>take Israel hostage on his way to Jerusalem - and from there to Paris
> > and London.
> >>
> >>An enormous terrorist infrastructure has been established by Iran on
> >>our border, threatening our citizens, growing stronger before our very
> >>eyes, awaiting the moment when the land of the Ayatollahs becomes a
> >>nuclear power in order to bring us to our knees. And make no mistake -
> >>we won't go down alone. You, the leaders of the free and enlightened
> >>world, will go down along with us.
> >>
> >>So today, here and now, I am putting an end to this parade of
> >>hypocrisy. I don't recall such a wave of reaction in the face of the
> >>100 citizens killed every single day in Iraq. Sunnis kill Shiites who
> >>kill Sunnis, and all of them kill Americans - and the world remains
> >>silent. And I am hard pressed to recall a similar reaction when the
> >>Russians destroyed entire villages and burned down large cities in
> > order to repress the revolt in Chechnya.
> >>And when NATO bombed Kosovo for almost three months and crushed the
> >>civilian population - then you also kept silent. What is it about us,
> >>the Jews, the minority, the persecuted, that arouses this cosmic sense
> >>of justice in you? What do we have that all the others don't?
> >>
> >>In a loud clear voice, looking you straight in the eye, I stand before
> >>you openly and I will not apologize. I will not capitulate. I will not
> > whine.
> >>This is a battle for our freedom. For our humanity. For the right to
> >>lead normal lives within our recognized, legitimate borders. It is also
> >
> >>your battle. I pray and I believe that now you will understand that.
> >>Because if you don't, you may regret it later, when it's too late.

 

[Les Biehn]

Its about time pressure was put on allparties from both the UK and US for an immediate cessfire. Start resolving other issues after the killing has stopped Tony, stop sucking Bush (is that possible?). If peace can be managed in Ireland without displacing thousands more people that the same is achieveable in the middle east. Intergration is the key, whether it will happen or not I don't know.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The Middle East conflict will rage on and on until Mankind is eradicated from this planet ( most likely from a nuclear bomb dropped from a Middle East country ).

There is no solution.

Sad but true.

 

[Commander]

Speech published in Maariv 31 - by Israeli Prime Minister

> >>Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world. I, the Prime Minister of
> >>Israel, am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible
> >>pictures from Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken
> >>and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort
> >
> >>that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you
> >
> >>straight in the eye and telling you that the State of Israel will
> >>continue its military campaign in Lebanon.
> >>
> >>The Israel Defense Forces will continue to attack targets from which
> >>missiles and Katyusha rockets are fired at hospitals, old age homes and
> >
> >>kindergartens in Israel. I have instructed the security forces and the
> >>IDF to continue to hunt for the Katyusha stockpiles and launch sites
> >>from which these savages are bombarding the State of Israel.
> >>
> >>We will not hesitate, we will not apologize and we will not back off.
> >>If they continue to launch missiles into Israel from Kfar Kana, we will
> >
> >>continue to bomb Kfar Kana. Today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow.
> >>Here, there and everywhere. The children of
> >>
> >>Kfar Kana could now be sleeping peacefully in their homes, unmolested,
> >>had the agents of the devil not taken over their land and turned the
> >>lives of our children into hell.
> >>
> >>Ladies and gentlemen, it's time you understood: the Jewish state will
> >>no longer be trampled upon. We will no longer allow anyone to exploit
> >>population centers in order to bomb our citizens. No one will be able
> >>to hide anymore behind women and children in order to kill our women
> >>and children. This anarchy is over. You can condemn us, you can boycott
> >
> >>us, you can stop visiting us and, if necessary, we will stop visiting
> > you.
> >>
> >>A voice for six million citizens
> >>
> >>Today I am serving as the voice of six million bombarded Israeli
> >>citizens who serve as the voice of six million murdered Jews who were
> >>melted down to dust and ashes by savages in Europe. In both cases,
> >>those responsible for these evil acts were, and are, barbarians devoid
> >>of all humanity, who set themselves one simple goal: to wipe the Jewish
> >
> >>race off the face of the earth, as Adolph Hitler said, or to wipe the
> >>State of Israel off the map, as Mahmoud Ahmedinjad proclaims.
> >>
> >>And you - just as you did not take those words seriously then, you are
> >>ignoring them again now. And that, ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the
> >
> >>world, will not happen again. Never again will we wait for bombs that
> >>never came to hit the gas chambers. Never again will we wait for
> >>salvation that never arrives. Now we have our own air force. The Jewish
> >
> >>people are now capable of standing up to those who seek their
> >>destruction - those people will no longer be able to hide behind women
> >>and children. They will no longer be able to evade their
> > responsibility.
> >>
> >>Every place from which a Katyusha is fired into the State of Israel
> >>will be a legitimate target for us to attack. This must be stated
> >>clearly and publicly, once and for all. You are welcome to judge us, to
> >
> >>ostracize us, to boycott us and to vilify us. But to kill us?
> > Absolutely not.
> >>
> >>Four months ago I was elected by hundreds of thousands of citizens to
> >>the office of Prime Minister of the government of Israel, on the basis
> >>of my plan for unilaterally withdrawing from 90 percent of the areas of
> >
> >>Judea and Samaria, the birth place and cradle of the Jewish people; to
> >>end most of the occupation and to enable the Palestinian people to turn
> >
> >>over a new leaf and to calm things down until conditions are ripe for
> >>attaining a permanent settlement between us.
> >>
> >>The Prime Minister who preceded me, Ariel Sharon, made a full
> >>withdrawal from the Gaza Strip back to the international border, and
> >>gave the Palestinians there a chance to build a new reality for
> >>themselves. The Prime Minister who preceded him, Ehud Barak, ended the
> >>lengthy Israeli presence in Lebanon and pulled the IDF back to the
> >>international border, leaving the land of the cedars to flourish,
> >>develop and establish its democracy and its economy.
> >>
> >>What did the State of Israel get in exchange for all of this? Did we
> >>win even one minute of quiet? Was our hand, outstretched in peace, met
> >>with a handshake of encouragement? Ehud Barak's peace initiative at
> >>Camp David let loose on us a wave of suicide bombers who smashed and
> >>blew to pieces over 1,000 citizens, men, women and children. I don't
> >>remember you being so enraged then. Maybe that happened because we did
> >>not allow TV close-ups of the dismembered body parts of the Israeli
> > youngsters at the Dolphinarium?
> >>Or of the shattered lives of the people butchered while celebrating the
> >
> >>Passover seder at the Park Hotel in Netanya? What can you do - that's
> >>the way we are. We don't wave body parts at the camera. We grieve
> > quietly.
> >>
> >>We do not dance on the roofs at the sight of the bodies of our enemy's
> >>children - we express genuine sorrow and regret. That is the monstrous
> >>behavior of our enemies. Now they have risen up against us. Tomorrow
> >>they will rise up against you. You are already familiar with the
> >>murderous taste of this terror. And you will taste more.
> >>
> >>In a loud and clear voice
> >>
> >>And Ariel Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza. What did it get us? A barrage
> >>of Kassem missiles fired at peaceful settlements and the kidnapping of
> >>soldiers. Then too, I don't recall you reacting with such alarm. And
> >>for six years, the withdrawal from Lebanon has drawn the vituperation
> >>and crimes of a dangerous, extremist Iranian agent, who took over an
> >>entire country in the name of religious fanaticism and is trying to
> >>take Israel hostage on his way to Jerusalem - and from there to Paris
> > and London.
> >>
> >>An enormous terrorist infrastructure has been established by Iran on
> >>our border, threatening our citizens, growing stronger before our very
> >>eyes, awaiting the moment when the land of the Ayatollahs becomes a
> >>nuclear power in order to bring us to our knees. And make no mistake -
> >>we won't go down alone. You, the leaders of the free and enlightened
> >>world, will go down along with us.
> >>
> >>So today, here and now, I am putting an end to this parade of
> >>hypocrisy. I don't recall such a wave of reaction in the face of the
> >>100 citizens killed every single day in Iraq. Sunnis kill Shiites who
> >>kill Sunnis, and all of them kill Americans - and the world remains
> >>silent. And I am hard pressed to recall a similar reaction when the
> >>Russians destroyed entire villages and burned down large cities in
> > order to repress the revolt in Chechnya.
> >>And when NATO bombed Kosovo for almost three months and crushed the
> >>civilian population - then you also kept silent. What is it about us,
> >>the Jews, the minority, the persecuted, that arouses this cosmic sense
> >>of justice in you? What do we have that all the others don't?
> >>
> >>In a loud clear voice, looking you straight in the eye, I stand before
> >>you openly and I will not apologize. I will not capitulate. I will not
> > whine.
> >>This is a battle for our freedom. For our humanity. For the right to
> >>lead normal lives within our recognized, legitimate borders. It is also
> >
> >>your battle. I pray and I believe that now you will understand that.
> >>Because if you don't, you may regret it later, when it's too late.

Not sure the world has 'remained silent' on Iraq!

 

[Les Biehn]

The Middle East conflict will rage on and on until Mankind is eradicated from this planet ( most likely from a nuclear bomb dropped from a Middle East country ).

There is no solution.

Sad but true.

Slight pessimistic view Unc. If the world leaders do the right thing the major problems can be resolved. People keep banging on about the Extremists and how they will destroy the west, but they are a minority and the majority of the arab world are normal folks who want to get on with their lives.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Didn't people there was no prospect of peace in the seemingly-irreconcilable Northern Ireland conflict? It's too easy and simple-minded to give up trying to stop innocent people dying. But the answer here lies not in the Middle East, of course, but in Washington.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Didn't people there was no prospect of peace in the seemingly-irreconcilable Northern Ireland conflict? It's too easy and simple-minded to give up trying to stop innocent people dying. But the answer here lies not in the Middle East, of course, but in Washington.

Don't really think the Northern Ireland situation and this are comparable....

The answers though, lay everywhere, including Washington. How can a country such as Iran, who are hell bent on the total destruction of Israel, not shoulder some of the blame??

 

[Man of Harveys]

Don't really think the Northern Ireland situation and this are comparable....

The answers though, lay everywhere, including Washington. How can a country such as Iran, who are hell bent on the total destruction of Israel, not shoulder some of the blame??

Erm, maybe read it again? It was specifically in reference to another military conflict which was said to be intractable at the time but actually turned out not to be, after the Tories started negotiating with terrorists, shock horror. I'm suggesting that the same is possible in the Middle East - we've had peace processes there before which eventually fell apart but even a short-lived ceasefire would be better than the current situation - one less innocent death is well worth trying for.

Agree about Iran but, apart from talking tough, they're just not as obviously directly involved in this - the Americans are even telling the Israeli govt. how much time they have to to bomb and invade. Bear in mind that, since its creation, Israel has had war declared on it by its neighbours so sabre-rattling by the likes of the Iranians is nothing new for them, sadly. I'd pay more heed to the military action being condemned by the moderate and otherwise generally not anti-Israeli Jordanians, say. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5242168.stm

 

[goldstone]

Bottom line is that in recent history wars have not solved anything. In the end all parties have had to sit around a table to try and resolve their differences. If only this was appreciated by all the trigger-happy warmongers waging war with each other around the globe.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Erm, maybe read it again? It was specifically in reference to another military conflict which was said to be intractable at the time but actually turned out not to be, after the Tories started negotiating with terrorists, shock horror. I'm suggesting that the same is possible in the Middle East - we've had peace processes there before which eventually fell apart but even a short-lived ceasefire would be better than the current situation - one less innocent death is well worth trying for.

Agree about Iran but, apart from talking tough, they're just not as obviously directly involved in this - the Americans are even telling the Israeli govt. how much time they have to to bomb and invade. Bear in mind that, since its creation, Israel has had war declared on it by its neighbours so sabre-rattling by the likes of the Iranians is nothing new for them, sadly. I'd pay more heed to the military action being condemned by the moderate and otherwise generally not anti-Israeli Jordanians, say. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5242168.stm

All very valid points (although, I would say supplying missiles and troops to fight Israel is more than just 'sabre-rattling'). The point of my thread was just to emphasise that for all the bad press Israel receives (some of it justified), people have to understand that when some countries or groups are totally bent on your destruction it becomes increasingly difficult to remain moderate.

 

[Clapham Old Mug]

Yes - it's impossible not to feel sorry for the Lebanese but they have just rolled over and allowed their country to be over-run by Hezbollah. 3,000 missiles already fired into Israel? Thought to be only 10% of their stockpile? So the Lebanese have allowed 30,000 missiles to be brought into their country from, presumably, either Iran or Syria. Not altogether surprising the Israelis aren't thrilled by Lebanon's offer to police the border areas before the international peace-keepers arrive...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Re: Re: Time to deal with Israel?

Israel is also surrounded by enemies bent on her destruction.

Countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt have a vested interest in the war, countries who do not want to see a nuclear armed Iran dominant in the area. Because obviously they've been up in arms over the war, haven't they.

Hizbollah has basically hijacked Lebanon and are launching attacks from populated areas, from old people's homes etc etc. Imagine if we were at war with Scotland and they kept bombing the north, attacking places like Carlisle and Newcastle. You can't give in to these terrorists. Yes mistakes have unfortunately been made but this happens in war. And this is a war we'd better hope the Israelis don't lose.

Israel is tin pot you say? What a fool you are and how little you know.

I'll deal with your last point first. You are arrogant.

Secondly, in terms of size and population there is no denying Israel is tin pot. Of course they've been equipped by the USA with an arsenal far beyond their needs.

The fact is they have scant regard for anyone else's interest other than their own - the bombing of the refinery shows they couldn't give a toss about Cyprus and Turkey which rely on tourism afor a good part of their income.

For the record, I have a Modern History degree and my opinion is just as valid as yours.

 

[Simster]

I think we've all had enough of Israel's over-reactions over the years, but I think in this case it has to be realised that Israel is reacting to an unprovoked attack on it's cities and army. The sad fact of the matter is that the government and Lebanese army are powerless to stop Hebollah - an organisation funded by two local powerhouse countries.

If we were attacked by a terrorist cell based in France who were being backed by a bigger country like the USA, would we stand by and let it continue in the knowledge that the French government was powerless to prevent it?

However, I don't understand why Israeli intelligence (presumably with CIA help) is so incredibly feeble as to have to take so many civillian lives in order to defend itself. Dropping leaflets warning the local population to leave is a feeble piece of diplomacy, consdering it always the elderly, sick and children who are least able to do exactly this. Because in the end, such Israeli aggression IS going to drive more normal Lebanese into the arms of terrorist cells. See the appalling Londonderry massacre and the IRA subscription rate for further proof of this.

 

[glasfryn]

Yes - it's impossible not to feel sorry for the Lebanese but they have just rolled over and allowed their country to be over-run by Hezbollah. 3,000 missiles already fired into Israel? Thought to be only 10% of their stockpile? So the Lebanese have allowed 30,000 missiles to be brought into their country from, presumably, either Iran or Syria. Not altogether surprising the Israelis aren't thrilled by Lebanon's offer to police the border areas before the international peace-keepers arrive...

nail on the head mate,nail on the head.