This really hacked me off yesterday

[Dave the OAP]

On the news, it was reported that the Government were "targetting" the 2.5million people who cannot work and are claiming incapacity/ invalidity benefits, as Tony believes that at least 1 million of them can get up off their arse and get down B&Q to work.

Now forgive me but we live in a society where someone earning 10 million pounds pays the same tax rate as someone earning 40k. How can that possibly be fair?

It seems that big corporations and high earners can pay huge sums to crooked accountants and flash lawyers so they end up paying the least amount of tax they can, yet the government are hounding people who receive on average £77 per week.

This is a national disgrace, especially as we are being told that , as predicted in the 80's, the pension pot has dried up and the government will not honour its obligations to the population who have worked their arses off all their life and is passing the buck back to us to take out personal schemes.

I FECKING WELL HATE GOVERNMENTS

 

[tedebear]

we saw that too Dave - especially the town of miners up north who cannot work due to illness... telling them to go back to work is like flogging a dead horse....

I do believe there are some "dodgy" claimants out there but picking on those miners who have lungs full of coal must take a f-ing ruthless accountant!!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think that one of the reasons our economy has been so dynamic over the past few years is that the top rate of tax is reasonable.

Any more, and the movers and shakers would start buggering off to pastures new, as they did in the 60s and 70s under Old Labour.

As regards targetting those claiming incapacity / invalidity benefit, if you ain't guilty you've got nothing to worry about.

 

[Lammy]

Someone earning £40m pays 100x more tax than someone earning £40k.

How is this not fair?

Why should the rate go up because they ahave more money? That very fact that they have more money means they are paying more. If you put the rate up on high earner one of two things will happen (probably both)

1) There wages will go up more to compensate for the higher tax rate. Thus the people further down the chain miss out on higher pay.

2) They leage the country in order to escape the high tax.

Neither of these options is good for the economy.

Now having someone with a bad leg sitting on his arse rather than operate a computer of a check out as far more damaging to the economy and draining on the tax payer.

 

[REDLAND]

Someone earning £40m pays 100x more tax than someone earning £40k.

How is this not fair?

Why should the rate go up because they ahave more money? That very fact that they have more money means they are paying more. If you put the rate up on high earner one of two things will happen (probably both)

1) There wages will go up more to compensate for the higher tax rate. Thus the people further down the chain miss out on higher pay.

2) They leage the country in order to escape the high tax.

Neither of these options is good for the economy.

Now having someone with a bad leg sitting on his arse rather than operate a computer of a check out as far more damaging to the economy and draining on the tax payer.

I was gonna write something similar, but you said it ALL right here,

cheers

:athumb:

 

[Dave the OAP]

Yes but lammy it never works like that...ask any decent accountant with a smigin of knowledge of the tax system.


Are you telling me its fair that I pay my tax at 40% when someone earning 10 times as much as me pays at the same rate?

point 2 is cobblers.......Thatcher used this arguement and it was found that it was total crap. People just moved their funds to offshore companies to avoid paying taxes. That would not happen now as the Tax laws have been tightened up. The net outflow of so called rich people in the 70's was highly overstated.

point 1..that is also somewhat tenuous. So if someone has to pay more tax, they ask for more money? We live in a very tight fiscal economy, pay rises are few and far between.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think that people are a lot more prepared to up sticks and live abroad if it means they will have a better standard of living, because it's easier to stay in touch with the UK with cheaper flights, satellite TV, cheaper phone calls, internet etc.

Also, with the top slice of National Insurance it's effectively 41% you pay in higher rate tax, not 40%.

 

[Lammy]

Yes but lammy it never works like that...ask any decent accountant with a smigin of knowledge of the tax system.


Are you telling me its fair that I pay my tax at 40% when someone earning 10 times as much as me pays at the same rate?

point 2 is cobblers.......Thatcher used this arguement and it was found that it was total crap. People just moved their funds to offshore companies to avoid paying taxes. That would not happen now as the Tax laws have been tightened up. The net outflow of so called rich people in the 70's was highly overstated.

point 1..that is also somewhat tenuous. So if someone has to pay more tax, they ask for more money? We live in a very tight fiscal economy, pay rises are few and far between.

Maybe at our level, but up there with the fat cats. Bonuses, pay rises, golden handshakes and back rubs are handed out like confetti! This is why there is feck all left in the pot for the likes of us lot. If we made their tax situation worse then this would worsen.

The point is, why should you be punished for being successful. Where is the incentive to do well only to have it taken away and given to those that don't want to work?

This is obviously a massive generalisation. However, I for one would much rather have a load of rich successful people in this country than a load of people taking the piss with infalidity benefit. For one thing it cheapens the people that REALLY need it.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I'm fully behind Tony on this, why should 1 000 000 people sit on their arses and do sod all and be paid for it ?.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I suspect this 'initiative' is as much about pulling the rug from under the Tories with an election looming as anything else.

It's just the sort of thing Michael Howard would love to have announced.

 

[Lammy]

don't get me wrong. I think it's all bullshit. But in an ideal world I'd much rather the work dodger were targeted rather than a successful business person.

 

[tedebear]

The point is, why should you be punished for being successful. Where is the incentive to do well only to have it taken away and given to those that don't want to work?

But if I earnt millions on zillions I'd then employ some "wonderful" accountant (such as myself) to ensure that I actually earned a pittance on my tax return - thus alleviating my tax burden...Catch 22 - said Mr heller...

 

[Lammy]

But if I earnt millions on zillions I'd then employ some "wonderful" accountant (such as myself) to ensure that I actually earned a pittance on my tax return - thus alleviating my tax burden...Catch 22 - said Mr heller...

That would still happen if you raise the percentage of tax they paid. It seems to me, that you are angry with the accountants rather than the millionaires?

Perhaps the government needs to clamp down on that?

 

[tedebear]

That would still happen if you raise the percentage of tax they paid. It seems to me, that you are angry with the accountants rather than the millionaires?

Perhaps the government needs to clamp down on that?

I was agreeing with you??

ps I am an accountant - and a very dodgy one at that

 

[Lammy]

I was agreeing with you??

ps I am an accountant - and a very dodgy one at that

Are you asking me if you were agreeing with me?

 

[Mr C]

The whole point of having tax as a percentage means that the more you earn, the more you pay, so Dave, yes of course it is fair.

Why should someone who earns more pay a higher rate? Now let's see how much I've repeated of what's already been said

 

[fatboy]

Are you telling me its fair that I pay my tax at 40% when someone earning 10 times as much as me pays at the same rate?

Why should someone on a higher wage than you pay a higher rate of tax?

 

[Weezle]

Get the benefit frauds out to work so they can be making the state money lowering the burden on the rest of us - don't punsih people for success. The fact is that if everyone worked income tax would only be about half of what it is now.

My family are currently being punished because my gran decided to save hard all her life. She is currently in a nursing home having to pay £600 A WEEK when my girlfriend's grandad who saved nothing in his life is getting it all paid for by the government.

How is this fair? You should not punish the people who have done well and reward those that haven't - there should be a level playing field for all.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

If you earm more you can afford to contribute more. Those with the most help those with the least. As those with least earn more, they contribute more. It is the way of our world.

 

[finbar]

Is it actually morally acceptable for the huge inequality between rich and poor, when the links between effort and reward are very often not clear

There are many many thousands of people earning 1,2,3,4,5 million pounds a year - are they working any harder than doris on the checkout at tescos? Or Sam the fireman who risks his life regularly? Its basic unfairness.

I know many many people who work in the city, their nights out are covered by expense accounts, they get bonuses of £10'000s but are not working any harder than most people on 12k a year.
We all know a lot of how well you do in a career is to do with social background, education and of course luck. There is no level playing field, people dont start from the same level, a truely fair tax system recognises this.

The point of a progressive tax system is it is fair, in that it helps redistribute wealth. Im not talking about the general professional who has been working for 15 years and is now on 60k a year, but there most definately should be a higher rate of tax than 40% for those earning, say £200,000. An additional 10% on earnings over that amount should not be a burden to them, and if this puts them off working in the UK, well sod them, take their greedy arses and f*** off somewhere else.